I fully disagree with Karel.
You first wanted to put the spaces in the CL and now the FTs ? what is it with
your obcession on the CL ? let it
be what it is : a CONTACT list, nothing more.maybe you have your CL as always
on top and have a dual screen
specially to put your CL on it and you want all the info there, but in my case
and in the case of many people,
no, the CL is only opened when you want to start a chat, you don't need it if
you don't want to "see who's
online". Some people also always want their CL maximized, whether it is because
they are used to maximized
windows or maybe because they want to see their contact's full nicknames
without truncation, but in any case,
the CL is NOT the place for that. Maybe you think it's better for usability,
but I would say it's better for YOU
and usability, but not everyone uses it the same way as you do. And I think
that 'simple' is better than 'save a
few eye movements'. Seriously, how many people do you think will be completely
lost and confused if they start a
chat and it pops up in their contact list, huh ???
The spaces in CL is acceptable because it's info about the contacts, but still,
I still disagree.. but now, FTs
in the CL? I completely disagree.
As Harry said below, I wonder how many users would think of it that way (main
window is not about the CL).
Now, don't worry, everything you said didn't go to waste, it just helped
everyone here brainstorm on a usable
solution. And many issues were reported already. If I can summarize it, I would
say that we have :
1 - what to do in case no tabs, or tabs per group ?
2 - create a new window or a new tab in a container ? in that case which
container ?
3 - do we want inside the CW or as a new download manager window separate ?
4 - what happens if we close the CW and the chat is still open ?
I don't know if I put everything... anyways, I kind of have a solution that I
hope everyone will like. I suggest
to do both in CW and as a separate download manager.
So, I would very much like a download manager like firefox/pidgin that would be
awesome and everyone will love
it! where to open it ? I guess we could open it wherever we want, right ?
1 - if no tabs, then open a new window with it
2 - if tabs, then open it as a new tab
3 - if a container per group, then we could have it appear as a tab in EACH
container.
Think about Opera for example, you press Ctrl-Alt-T (the hotkey) which opens
the transfer manager/window. it's a
new tab that gets opened in the window you are in. Yes, opera can have as many
windows as you want, and each
'window' can have as many tabs as you want. If you open a transfer in window 1,
then the transfer manager opens
as a new tab in window 1, if you open a transfer in window 2, the transfer
manager then opens up in window 2. It
stays open in window 1 and 2, they both look the same and they both have the
same info. it's just a kind of
'duplicate' of the window.
So whoever codes the download manager, when he does the snit object, he must
make sure that it can be 'hooked'
into multiple widgets. like for example we would do :
DownloadManager create DM1
DM1 setParent $w1 $w2
DM1 addTransfer $contact $filename ....
and in DownloadManager, we would do for example :
method addTransfer { ... } {
;# process whatever we want to process
$self updateWidget
}
method updateWidget {} {
foreach w $parents {
update $w
}
}
anyways, I'm not saying it should be done like that, but just saying we should
keep in mind that it can have
multiple parents.
Ok, so now, that's my solution about the tabs/tabs per group/no tabs. And just
so you know, it may seem weird or
you might say "but it's more confusing, multiple windows for the same thing",
I would say that you're wrong,
it's not confusing, I found it perfectly normal with Opera. I want to keep two
windows, one for work related
tabs and one for amsn forums tabs for example, well, if I transfer something, I
want to see it right here, next
to my current tab, I don't want it to switch to a different window. Also, most
people won't even notice, when
you're on container 1, and you open transfer window, it opens up next to your
current tab, you're happy, you
don't even think about "oh, didn't I have another one on some other container
somewhere".
Anyways. Next for the next solution. The transfers in the CW. I see it pretty
simple, keep them in the CW, but
not 'scrollable'. I would suggest maybe putting some small, little frame
between the buttonbar and the output
text widget. Something that doesn't scroll up, not much info in it, it
shouldn't bother the user, a simple line
in a small font, maybe 10 pixels high (per file), something like Azureus'
"download bar" (you open a download
bar 'always on top' gives you very small info about a download and you can put
it anywhere on your desktop and
minimize Azureus, it's probably 10 pixels heigh not more), I can send a
screenshot anytime.
So, you get soemthing like this :
--------------------------------------------
To : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--------------------------------------------
Me says : /\
hello
He says :
how are you ||
Me says : ||
blablablab ||
\/
-------------------------------------------
Receiving : Picture.jpg - 56% O
Sending : whatever.exe - 90% O
-------------------------------------------
<ButtonBar>
-------------------------------------------
<Input> |Send |
-------------------------------------------
Last Message Received at ...
-------------------------------------------
Yoiu see what I mean ? so, simple, receiving or sending. The filename, and
percentage. No need for a
progressbar, it will just clutter the window. The 'O' at the end could be
anything, I didn't think about it yet,
maybe a dot with green/red/whatever to show the progress. Or maybe it could be
an 'X' to close that 'line' from
there. And I'm thinking that the whole line could have a :
bind $line <Enter> "$line configure -relief raised"
bind $line <Button1> "DownloadOpen FocusAndSelect [$line cget -transferid]"
You see what I mean? you click on the line (wherever you click), it
opens/switches to the download manager and
selects the transfer so you can move/delete/cancel/whatever. And the 'raised'
would be so we can see that the
whole line is 'clickable'.
Now my question here is "what happens when a file is 'done'".. should we remove
the line from the CW since it's
done ? or should we keep it until the user closes it ?
1 - if we close it, it's simply because it's done no need to follow transfer
2 - if we don't, then it's better because a user might want to see "when" it's
done without opening the download
manager. But also, if he sends a lot of windows, it can become annoying to
close them all one by one at the end,
just like it's currently annoying to close the current FT windows one by one if
you send a lot of files at once.
About the options. Of course we want this customizable. With Opera, they have a
buttonbar in the DM (download
manager), it has a 'View' button, with three options :
1 - Show transfer when starting download
2 - Show transfer in background when starting download
3 - Never show transfers when starting download
so, the '1' means that whenever I click on 'save' on a file, the transfer
window opens up and gets the focus
(switch to tab). On '2', it means that if the transfer window was closed, then
it will open as a new tab, but
stay in the background (it opens but it doesn't switch to its tab), and '3'
means that it never gets opened
unless I do a Ctrl-Alt-T (or tools menu->Transfers)
The view button also a "show new items on top" and a "show details" options
(which adds a little frame in the
bottom so whenever I select a file in the transfer window, it tells me the full
path its saved to, the URL I
download it from, the size of the file, how much I transfered (and how many
seeds/leechers/etc.. for bittorrent
files (yeah, opera supports download of bittorrent files as if they were normal
URLs)).
So I suggest we keep the 3 options of Opera about when to show the transfer
window, I think it's a good idea.
And about the show details or not, I think it will mostly depend on how we
design the whole manager.
About the CW items, have an option 'auto-close download bar once done' should
help us avoid any problems.
I think this solution allows for a good usability, and configurable by users so
they get what they want, and is
still powerful and simple and everything..
Of course, we could also have an option to show/hide the download bars in the
CW.
I hope I didn't forget anything.. but anyways, I have to go and don't have time
to think about more.
What do you think ?
p.s.: I have to go now, so if you answer me now, you won't get my answer until
I'm back online (in about an
hour).
KaKaRoTo
On Mon, May 28, 2007 at 03:48:01PM +0200, Harry Vennik wrote:
>
> Op 28-mei-2007, om 15:30 heeft Karel Demeyer het volgende geschreven:
>
> > 2007/5/28, Harry Vennik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >> Hmm, I don't see the point of putting the FT manager in the CL
> >> Window, it
> >> has simply nothing to do with the CL.
> >
> > The main window is not only about the CL, it's about aMSN on it's
> > whole !
>
> Hmm, I wonder if many users would think of it that way. At least I
> don't.
>
> >
> >> I'd say we'd either embed it in the chat as I suggested (but Phil
> >> rejected
> >> that already),
> > As it would scroll away and make it impossible to watch while
> > chatting.
> >
>
> That's true, but why would you watch it all the time? Because of the
> nice progressbar with changing color? (j/k)
> Of course, you might want to check if the transfer has finished, but
> I won't mind scrolling back for that.
> There is one other problem however (which applies to some other
> proposed solutions too): What to do when the CW is closed before the
> FT completes?
>
> >> or have a separate FT manager window, just to have all FT's
> >> in one window, and to keep some FT history (so when you know that
> >> Mr X sent
> >> you some file yesterday, you can open the FT window, and you can
> >> see the
> >> completed FT from Mr X there...). Also it would be nice to have
> >> some way
> >> (right-click menu?) there that allows you to move the file from 'amsn
> >> received files' to somewhere else, or delete the file. This will
> >> allow a
> >> user to accept an FT, open the file to see if he likes it, if yes,
> >> put it in
> >> some sensible location, otherwise delete it. The look of the
> >> window could be
> >> similar to the Downloads window in Firefox or Safari.
> >
> > Which is all possible in my 1st idea, without having yet another
> > window open. This way, there's no ned to search for the window in you
> > window manager, it's in teh main amsn window most users will have on
> > their screen while using amsn anyway.
>
> I know that's possible, but I just wouldn't like to have that stuff
> in my CL window.
>
> >>
> >> Harry
> >>
> >>
> >> Op 28-mei-2007, om 14:58 heeft [EMAIL PROTECTED] het
> >> volgende
> >> geschreven:
> >>
> >> I agree with Karel - we should have a tab in the main window. That
> >> way,
> >> if/when we have tabbed CLs for multiple logins then it can be just
> >> another
> >> tab on the end..? Or maybe different...
> >>
> >> On 28/05/07, Karel Demeyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>> So in a seperate window for non-tabbed-window users and in what
> >>> tabbed
> >>> window for ppl who use tabs per group ? Or only have the ft's of the
> >>> chats of a specific container in the FT tab of that container ?
> >>> So an
> >>> FT tab per container ?
> >>> You can 't start FT's from that FT tab either, don't you ? Doesn't
> >>> this make it more difficult to find ? Or silly ?
> >>> This means I can't chat with a person and see the status of the
> >>> FT on
> >>> the same moment ? I think it's very much needed to be able to see
> >>> the
> >>> status while your chatting wityh the person who sent the file or
> >>> you're sending a file to! (this can be done with both my ideas and a
> >>> FT manager in a seperate window)
> >>>
> >>> How is it simpler to make ?
> >>>
> >>> The question I have when I choose between my 2 ideas, is "is it
> >>> needed
> >>> to see all downloads in 1 place ?" ... will ppl have so much FT's
> >>> all
> >>> together so it's a needed feature sto see 'm both ? Because I'm not
> >>> yet sure of this I have two ideas.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 2007/5/28, Philippe Valembois - Phil <
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >>>> I would have thought about a FTManager tab in the Chat Window...
> >>>> Simple to make and better to see all your transfers for every Chat
> >>>> Putting this in Main window is silly IMO as you can't start a FT
> >>>> from
> >>>> here...
> >>>> Phil
> >>>>
> >>>> Karel Demeyer a écrit :
> >>>>> Idd.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> From a usability standpoint, I think it would be best to have all
> >>>>> downloads in 1 FTmanager 'window', to avoid clutter and to make it
> >>>>> overseeable. But I think it would be even better to embed this
> >>>>> 'window' in the main amsn window to avoid clutter. In the caht
> >>>>> window
> >>>>> we could have a text saying (to check the status of this file
> >>>>> transfer, see the main window).
> >>>>> My idea is like this:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> | |
> >>>>> +--------------------------+
> >>>>> | event log [v]|
> >>>>> +--------------------------+
> >>>>> |File transfers: [-]|
> >>>>> +--------------------------+
> >>>>> |Filename 1 - [EMAIL PROTECTED]|
> >>>>> | [======= ] |
> >>>>> | Open Cancel |
> >>>>> | |
> >>>>> |Filename 2 - [EMAIL PROTECTED]|
> >>>>> | [======= ] |
> >>>>> | Open Cancel |
> >>>>> +--------------------------+
> >>>>>
> >>>>> (watch with monospace font)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> when the [-] (button) is clicked, it should show:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> | |
> >>>>> +--------------------------+
> >>>>> | event log [v]|
> >>>>> +--------------------------+
> >>>>> |File transfers: [+]|
> >>>>> +--------------------------+
> >>>>>
> >>>>> (to expand again, click [+])
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ideas, suggestions ?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Another idea would be to have the file transfer UI be embedded
> >>>>> in the
> >>>>> chatwindow, on the tab of the chat where the ft was started,
> >>>>> but not
> >>>>> in the conversation itself but on the right of it (where the dp
> >>>>> of the
> >>>>> user is). This space is not used for anything else, and this
> >>>>> way the
> >>>>> FT stays with the chat. As they have a link, they are easy to
> >>>>> find
> >>>>> this way. As FT's are not amsn's main activity and I don't see
> >>>>> some
> >>>>> users doing a lot of FT's together this would still be
> >>>>> overseeable.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ideas here ? Suggestions ?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Karel.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2007/5/28, Philippe Valembois - Phil <
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >>>>>> Nooo ! ;)
> >>>>>> This idea from MSN is really bad : we always lost our FTs when
> >>>>>> we are
> >> in
> >>>>>> a deep conversation with someone. The FT Manager let us to see
> >> exactly
> >>>>>> what we have donloaded and so on...
> >>>>>> Phil
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Harry Vennik a écrit :
> >>>>>>> I think this is a very good idea. Would be better than 1
> >>>>>>> window per
> >> FT.
> >>>>>>> An alternative would be, to integrate the progress indication
> >>>>>>> for FT
> >>>>>>> into the chat window. (a progressbar etc. in the notification
> >> message
> >>>>>>> that an FT invitation was sent).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Op 28-mei-2007, om 11:25 heeft [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>>>>> <mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> het volgende geschreven:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I mean FT Manager of course...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 28/05/07, * [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>>>>>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* <
> >>>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>>>>>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Is there any chance of a 'download manager' being added
> >>>>>>>> to the
> >>>>>>>> TODO? Cause I'd be wiling to work on that :)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Tom
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 11/05/07, *Youness Alaoui * <
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>>>>>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>> I'll start this new thread about the 0.98 TODO. It
> >>>>>>>> is still
> >>>>>>>> very small now, and I hope it will get expanded with
> >>>>>>>> time. The 0.97 TODO is complete, 0.97 RC1 will be
> >>>>>>>> released
> >>>>>>>> soon (once we get the new smiley set lordzak/ubitux
> >>>>>>>> is doing), and we'll make a branch and start working on
> >> 0.98.
> >>>>>>>> So here's my current TODO list :
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> - HIGH PRI : Implement the new preferences window
> >>>>>>>> - Implement a new chat window widget in snit with
> >>>>>>>> totally
> >>>>>>>> modular code and using events.
> >>>>>>>> - very nice idea : be able to record a message to be
> >>>>>>>> sent
> >> as
> >>>>>>>> voiceclip in the custom status/autoaway message :
> >>>>>>>> (
> >> http://www.amsn-project.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3272
> >>>>>>>> <
> >> http://www.amsn-project.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3272>)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
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