On 17-Jul-26 21:20, Toerless Eckert wrote:
Thanks, Brian
Maybe i misunderstand something, but the goal of
draft-he-dawn-ipv6-agent-aware-framework seems
to be to ask for communication mechanisms that enable better agent-2-agent
communication. Which
is something totally different than what our ai2an draft targets, which is an
infrastructure
that allows one or more AI agents to best manage the network autonomically.
That's true, but DAWN as a whole seems quite confused about its goals.
Aka: Dawn draft is network infrastructure for agent-2-agent communication
ai4an draft is network infrastructure for agent network management
The draft you list seems to be borderline for DAWN as i think it says itself.
It's more like a layer
of dynamic load balacing for request packets sent toward a cluster address if i
am not mistaken.
It's also borderline for IPv6; at first sight I couldn't see any reason why it
cares about the IP version number.
I gave up proposing things to DAWN after my first inputs wheree ignored on the
list.
I think i have to stand up and raise concerns about the most basic issues. For
example,
i can not see how DAWN wants to solve the most basic discovery challenges over
the Internet,
namely trusting service announcements. I mean the Internet exists for decades,
and there is
no such thing as a generic trusted mechanism for service discovery. Instead we
have word of
mouth ("you ewant a search service ? Try google.com or baidu.com - depending on
which side of
the GWC you are").
Meaning: All this dawn stuff can only work well (like ANIMA) in well enough
managed networks
with some magical third-party entity that only admits trusted entities for each
service of interest.
Either that, or a very clever auth/authz process after discovery. That would
also very likely need a trusted third party too.
Brian
But that's just my biggest DAWN issue...
Cheers
Toerless
On Mon, Jul 06, 2026 at 01:50:24PM +1200, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
Hi,
I'm all for what you are saying in this draft, but I think you also have to
address it to the DAWN people and everybody working on agentic communications.
Look at draft-he-dawn-ipv6-agent-aware-framework, for example; it has very
little to do with IPv6. Maybe you should ask for a slot at the DAWN BOF? (DAWN
= Discovery of Agents, Workloads, and Named Entities.) At least point out that
ANIMA/GRASP has been working on discovery of agents since the dawn of time (pun
intended).
Also, the trust boundary issue we just discussed re
draft-soulard-anima-grasp-router-problem-statement is going to be relevant. I
see a clear clash between the type of trust boundary that BRSKI provides and
how the agentic community is looking at trust.
Nit: s/autonomous/autonomic/ globally
(We chose "autonomic" at the beginning of ANIMA, by analogy with the autonomic
nervous system, so I think we need to be consistent.)
Regards/Ngā mihi
Brian
On 06-Jul-26 11:28, [email protected] wrote:
Internet-Draft draft-eckert-anima-ai4an-00.txt is now available.
Title: AI for Autonomous Networking
Authors: Toerless Eckert
Alexander Clemm
Name: draft-eckert-anima-ai4an-00.txt
Pages: 17
Dates: 2026-07-05
Abstract:
This document builds on the architectural foundation of the IETF
ANIMA "Autonomous Network Infrastructure" to propose an architecture
for in-network intelligence in support of network automation.
The key aspect of this architecture is the use of AI programmed and
validated software running decentralized on the network.
The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eckert-anima-ai4an/
There is also an HTMLized version available at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-eckert-anima-ai4an-00
Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at:
rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts
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