On 21 September 2011 21:25, Bernard Chardonneau <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> As as least Francis Tyers knows, I chosed to work on french translations
> of Apertium wiki before working on language pairs.
>
> A problem is the speed of the wiki server is sometimes good (one second),
> more often slower (about 5 seconds), sometimes completly blocked.
>
> Often, the speed decrease during evening.
>
> Today, the speed was good from the morning to the moment I tried to
> save a new page which is the full translation of "Tips for working
> on bilingual dictionaries".
>
> When I tried to save it, I got an error like "SQL request included
> in another one".
>
> I tried to preview the text, or part of text, for the part of text
> without the line :
> <e><p><l>laufabrauð<s n="n"/><s 
> n="nt"/></l><r>traditional<b/>Icelandic<b/>deep-fried<b/>patterned<b/>Christmas<b/>wafer<s
>  n="n"/></r></p></e>
>
> (I see now this line should be translated)
>

This is specifically intended to be a 'what not to do' example.

> the preview took time but worked.
> The same error happened when I wanted to save this part of the page.
>
> After several tries, the wiki seems completly blocked even for just
> reading pages !
>
> May be, on this wiki problems start when updating (or creating) a page.
>
> I tried to save the same translation at the end of french wikipedia
> sandbox, it didn't took more than a second to insert it in the page :
> http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikip%C3%A9dia:Bac_%C3%A0_sable&oldid=70066303#Et_les_liens
>

I think your issues with the wiki are matters of load on the machine
serving it, which cannot be known in advance.

> ____________________________________________________________________
>
> Some questions now about dictionaries.
>
> When I translated Monodix basics, I chosed to translate in french also
> the example words.
> But that made me think the gender of noun should be indicated.
>
> I didn't see how it is done, I just saw something about it for Bidix
> files.
>

The tags are included in the paradigm; see the example below.

> So, is is good to indicate masculine or feminine nouns in Monodix
> files, and if it is, how to do it ?
>
> Expecialy for the lines :
>    <e lm="bière"><i>biere</i><par n="biere__n"/></e>
>    <e lm="école"><i>école</i><par n="biere__n"/></e>


Ah. '<par n="house__n"/>' means "at this point, include the paradigm
with the name 'house__n'", where earlier in the dictionary, in the
<pardefs> part of the dictionary, we had a piece like:

<pardef n="house__n">
  <e>
    <p>
      <l></l>
      <r><s n="n"/><s n="sg"/></r>
    </p>
  </e>
  <e>
    <p>
      <l>s</l>
      <r><s n="n"/><s n="pl"/></r>
    </p>
  </e>
</pardef>

To translate this to French, literally, you should also translate the
paradigm for 'bière':

<pardef n="bière__n">
  <e>
    <p>
      <l></l>
      <r><s n="n"/><s n="f"/><s n="sg"/></r>
    </p>
  </e>
  <e>
    <p>
      <l>s</l>
      <r><s n="n"/><s n="f"/><s n="pl"/></r>
    </p>
  </e>
</pardef>

The point being, that for every line '<par n="foo"/>' there should be
an earlier '<pardef n="foo"></pardef>' -- paradigms can be referred to
even from other paradigms - the only restrictions are that no paradigm
may refer to itself, even indirectly, and the paradigm being referred
to must appear before the paradigm that refers to it (processing of
the dictionaries is linear).

>    <e lm="ordinateur"><i>ordinateur</i><par n="biere__n"/></e>
>    <e lm="maison"><i>maison</i><par n="biere__n"/></e>
> (thank you for google cache even if it is an older version).
>
> I chosed for the id of the paradigm  biere__n  to use only
> US-ASCII characters.
> But does it works also with other characters like : bière__n
> (with an accent) ?
>

Yes, it should - and does - work with most unicode alphabetic
characters, with the normal caveats for XML ( < > & always need to be
replaced by entities; " and ' need to be replaced by entities
depending on the enclosing quote. It's generally better, if at all
avoidable, to avoid using these characters - they can lead to
transformation errors, etc.)

> And what is  lm  the abreviation of ?
>

'lemma'

> --------------------------------
>
> I never see somewhere something to indicate the position an
> adjective must have according to a noun.
>
> Eg:
> The red flower => La fleur rouge (the most frequent in french, the
> adjective if after the noun),
> The little flower => La petite fleur (the adjective "petit(e)" must
> be before the noun).
>
> Is there something in apertium to distinguish these two cases and
> how to do that ?

It could be added as a tag, but for the small number of such
adjectives, it would probably be better to add them as a list in
transfer. Determiners - which includes possessives (mon, notre) and
ordinals (premiere, troisieme) - would be treated separately to
adjectives, so those classes of words would not need extra treatment.

-- 
<Sefam> Are any of the mentors around?
<jimregan> yes, they're the ones trolling you

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