As an amateur gardener/orchardist (I'd be broke trying to do this commercially) it's HARD work! Let me chime in as a dentist/healthcare person who has another take on this whole question. The hype you read in the news is just that...it makes good copy and sells papers etc. But it does nothing to help the public become smarter consumers. There is no attempt to educate, just frighten, in a sensational way.. As we age (I'm 61 ) we start to see our colleagues and family lose their health and we double our efforts to put off what seems to be the inevitable. We are impacted by environmental toxins in a variety of ways. Things like Kaolin are particulates which may be non toxic in casual contact, but which our bodies cannot readily clear from places like lungs, which then becomes more of a local irritant causing local inflammation. So, the body recognizes a foreign body and sets about trying to clear it.....and one does not expect cancer from this in the short term at least. Consider any sort of dust or grit....just thinking of getting a lung full is repulsive...and our bodies do not like this. This is more a mechanical sort of injury/insult. Things like OP pesticides are normally detoxed by the liver (read about the cytochrome p450 enzyme system), which when working well clears the pesticide from our body by turning the offending chemical into something less toxic/more flushable. Imagine we have a certain capacity to detox at so many grams chemical per day. This is a rather absolute capacity above which we become and stay toxic due to liver overload....the body cannot clear more than so much period. This load now represents what we might consider the cancer causing potential in a person. Now add small amounts of many chemicals (sometimes hundreds at a time from divers sources) and now we have the scientists telling us that a particular chemical is below some set toxic level while we ignore ALL the other chemicals which are simultaneously being detoxed by our livers. We NET/NET are in a state of toxicity while the geniuses doing the research are ignoring the obvious. This is the argument for organic....overall reduction of multiple irritants in all forms to allow the body to keep itself in a less than toxic state.....thus reducing the overall chance of disease/cancer which we all dread.
Food additives such as MSG which are KNOWN neurotoxins are in most conventional prepared foods. They are intentionally labelled to disguise their presence...yet they hurt our children the most. Look this up....it's a fact. There are others (eg bovine growth hormone which many people avoid). Estrogen mimicers and other chemicals act on the RECEPTOR sites in nearly every cell in the body, thus turning on and off the activity intended ONLY for real hormones. They are imposters sending false messages to our genes which excite them to activity which is abnormal and in some ways are the pathways to some of the various cancers we are so full of these days. Soy is a source of many hormone look alikes....again something really bad for our children, since eating this stuff introduces outside sources of female acting hormones which affect our male children by making them develop small sex organs, and our girls have the onset of menses at age 10 or earlier...this is not normal!!!!! One of the biggest controversies of out time has been the use of Artificial female hormones (HRT) when the real human identical hormones (available everywhere) have been ignored due to the profit potential of the artificial type. We have paid a heavy price for this and the ladies have suffered for it. So, you have a tiny summary of a subject covered by many thousands of pages. Remember, the public perceives a threat given the amount of information at hand. We need to keep working on a better way to produce food with fewer inputs, and less toxic materials.... Thanks for listening to me. Karl W. Olson, DMD assistant clinical professor UCONN School of Dental Medicine and amateur grower....spots on all my fruit!!!! -----Original Message----- From: almarap...@aol.com To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Sun, Jul 25, 2010 7:39 am Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be fat too! Comment: There has been many note able comments made about organic apple production, and this is quite common on such a controversial subject. I find this very similar to diverse and many times erroneous opinions on religion, politics, the economy, etc. Please remember that it is not unusual for opinions to readily change when people reach a level of understanding which allows them to see most of the components within a complex equation such as organic perennial fruit production. I have a friend who's favorite saying is, Caution...........beware of stepping on your own tongue." Jim Koan Michigan Commercial conventional apple grower for twenty years Commercial organic apple grower for fifteen years -----Original Message----- From: Kurt Alstede <k...@alstedefarms.com> To: 'Apple-Crop' <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> Sent: Sat, Jul 24, 2010 2:57 pm Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be fat too! To Jim Bittner's quote I say AMEN! Yet, also like Jim we are finalizing our organic certification on 8 acres of fruits and vegetables. Many "gullible wealthy" buy from us so we need to give them what they want. Best, Kurt W. Alstede General Manager Alstede Farms, LLC 84 County Rt. 513 (Old Rt. 24) Post Office Box 278 Chester, New Jersey 07930 United States of America Tel.: 908-879-7189 Fax: 908-879-7815 www.alstedefarms.com -----Original Message----- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Jim Bittner Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 6:15 PM To: 'Apple-Crop' Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be fat too! Every once in a while I have to pull out something that was posted a few years back on this list serve about organic. I think it fits. I even grow some certified organic apples, but this really sums it up. "As currently defined, organic farming is a mystical mixture of 1930's technology and new age religion designed to quell the fears of the gullible wealthy in their fruitless search for a risk-free life." -----Original Message----- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Bill Shoemaker Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 3:09 PM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be fat too! I agree. I wasn't really arguing with Ken. I just wonder when we will get to live risk-free. Bill ---- Original message ---- >Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 11:49:50 -0700 >From: Robert kuljis <rjkul...@peak.org> >Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be fat too! >To: "Apple-Crop" <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> > >I think that is a good point about the kaolin,,, I know the non ag >formulations for pottery have all kinds of warnings for cancer, >inhalation threat, etc.. A simple particle mask would probably take >care of most of it. Not that it is that much fun to wear a mask all >the time while working in the trees. Of course there are lots of >unknowns with chemicals as well. The problem we have is that the >chemicals are extremely lucrative for giant companies who control much >of the university funding, so much less research and development goes >into non chemical methods. These methods could be much much cheaper. >Considering that conventional ag is responsible for at least 40% of >greenhouse gas emissions, mostly due to petroleum based fertilizer, >conversion to an ecological organic ag system seems to be not only >healthier, but a prerequisite for survival at this stage.. > Some things that can help with the application of either organic or >chem materials would be monitoring, understanding the disease/pest life >cycle,, implementing and enhancing biological controls. These have come >a long way, but the scale of the efforts is much higher on the end of >the paradigm that wants growers to keep putting out chemicals whose >ultimate cost is much more then the $ amount paid. >Robert Kuljis >Thomas Paine Farms > >On Jul 24, 2010, at 5:48 AM, Bill Shoemaker wrote: > >> I recently heard life is terminal. I think someone should do >> something about that. Who's in charge here! >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> ---- Original message ---- >>> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 18:31:11 -0400 >>> From: Ken Hall <edsorch...@aol.com> >>> Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be fat too! >>> To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net >>> >>> Is anyone familiar with work on human exposure to >>> kaolin clay in an orchard setting? A pulmonary >>> disease referred to as "kaolinosis" has been >>> identified in people who had high exposure to clay >>> dust. What about lower levels of exposure, year >>> after year, to orchard workers or pick-your-own >>> apple customers? >>> Not sure we can even say that kaolin is beyond >>> suspicion. >>> Ken Hall >>> Edwards Apple Orchard, Inc. >>> 7061 Centerville Road >>> Poplar Grove, IL 61065 >>> Ph: 815-765-2234 >>> Fx: 815-765-1072 >>> Cl: 815-520-5764 >>> Email: edsorch...@aol..com >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Fleming, William <w...@montana.edu> >>> To: Apple-Crop <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> >>> Sent: Fri, Jul 23, 2010 4:31 pm >>> Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be >>> fat too! >>> >>> I wouldn't say organic pesticides more toxic to >>> the environment but the fact that most are so broad >>> spectrum that they kill beneficials as well as >>> pests. That makes them unecological. as compared to >>> many of the modern pesticides that are very specific >>> in their targets. Plus many times when you kill the >>> beneficials you cause a whole new set of problems >>> that have to be addressed. You end up having to >>> spray even more. >>> Just the fact that organic pesticides are short >>> lived also makes them unecological in increased fuel >>> usage when several sprays may be needed to take the >>> place of one conventional material. >>> >>> Bill Fleming >>> Montana State University >>> Western Ag Research Center >>> 580 Quast Ln >>> Corvallis, Montana >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> From: apple-c...@virtualorchard..net >>> [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of >>> Robert kuljis >>> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 10:46 AM >>> To: Apple-Crop >>> Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: RE:...and causes you to be >>> fat too! >>> >>> I agree to buy local , but how can you say that >>> organic pesticides are more toxic to the >>> enviornment? Lets see, kaolin clay, entrust(soil >>> organism), pyrethreum(breaks down VERY fast, as >>> opposed to synthetic version which last longer). >>> How are these more toxic then man made chemicals >>> which do not break down? they break down into >>> compounds that still have no analog in nature.. >>> >>> On Jul 23, 2010, at 8:18 AM, <moore5...@msn.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> It is more important to know where your food is >>> grown! We have seen salmonella from melons and >>> scallions from Mexico and Asia. The USA has the Food >>> & Drug Administration that tightly regulates >>> pesticides and their application. Foreign foods do >>> not! Some pesticides are not applied to the food at >>> all but on small plastic tabs that are clipped on >>> branches to act as a deterrent to the bug. Organic >>> food growers use pesticides also, just more often >>> because the product does not last as long. Many >>> organic pesticides are more toxic to the environment >>> than the standard commercial grower uses. I know >>> because I am a commercial grower of apples. >>> Pesticides in the run off stream water from the home >>> gardener is one of the biggest offenders of >>> pollution. Consumers should use common sense and >>> wash everything raw before eating it. don't deprive >>> children of good nutrition because of a sensational >>> hit article that may be designed to garner >>> contributions to their non-profit cause. We grow >>> the safest food in the world. Support your local >>> farmer's market and buy American! >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net >>> From: david_d...@mac..com >>> Subject: Apple-Crop: ...and causes you to be fat >>> too! >>> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 09:47:28 -0400 >>> >>> the current lead story on Yahoo >>> - http://shine..yahoo.com/event/loveyourbody/why-you-cant-lose- >>> those-last-10-pounds-1964849/ >>> >>> "...See, an apple a day may have kept the doctor >>> away 250 years ago when Benjamin Franklin included >>> the phrase in his almanac. But if that apple comes >>> loaded with obesity-promoting chemicals - nine of >>> the ten most commonly used pesticides are obesogens, >>> and apples are one of the most pesticide-laden foods >>> out there - then Ben's advice is way out of >>> date...." >>> >>> I look forward to market saturday - >>> >>> David Doud - >>> >>> grower - indiana >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and >>> e-mail from your inbox. Get started. >>> >> William H Shoemaker, UI-Crop Sciences Sr Research Specialist, Food >> Crops St Charles Horticulture Research Center >> 535 Randall Road St Charles, IL 60174 630-584-7254; >> FAX-584-4610--------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> ---------------- >> The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard >> <http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon >> Clements <webmas...@virtualorchard.net>. >> Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not >> represent "official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no >> responsibility for the content. >> > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >--- > >The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard ><http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon >Clements <webmas...@virtualorchard.net>. > >Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent >"official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for >the content. > > > > > William H Shoemaker, UI-Crop Sciences Sr Research Specialist, Food Crops St Charles Horticulture Research Center 535 Randall Road St Charles, IL 60174 630-584-7254; FAX-584-4610 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3025 - Release Date: 07/24/10 01:36:00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard <http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements <webmas...@virtualorchard.net>. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent "official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3025 - Release Date: 07/24/10 02:36:00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard <http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements <webmas...@virtualorchard.net>. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent "official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
