Comment: There has been many note able comments made about organic
apple production, and this is quite common on such a controversial
subject. I find this very similar to diverse and many times
erroneous opinions on religion, politics, the economy, etc.
Please remember that it is not unusual for opinions to readily
change when people reach a level of understanding which allows them
to see most of the components within a complex equation such as
organic perennial fruit production.
I have a friend who's favorite saying is, Caution...........beware
of stepping on your own tongue."
Jim Koan
Michigan
Commercial conventional apple grower for twenty years
Commercial organic apple grower for fifteen years
-----Original Message-----
From: Kurt Alstede <[email protected]>
To: 'Apple-Crop' <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, Jul 24, 2010 2:57 pm
Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be fat too!
To Jim Bittner's quote I say AMEN! Yet, also like Jim we are finalizing our
organic certification on 8 acres of fruits and vegetables. Many "gullible
wealthy" buy from us so we need to give them what they want.
Best,
Kurt W. Alstede
General Manager
Alstede Farms, LLC
84 County Rt. 513 (Old Rt. 24)
Post Office Box 278
Chester, New Jersey 07930
United States of America
Tel.: 908-879-7189
Fax: 908-879-7815
<http://www.alstedefarms.com/>www.alstedefarms.com
-----Original Message-----
From:
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
[<mailto:[email protected]?>mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Jim Bittner
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 6:15 PM
To: 'Apple-Crop'
Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be fat too!
Every once in a while I have to pull out something that was posted a few
years back on this list serve about organic. I think it fits. I even grow
some certified organic apples, but this really sums it up.
"As currently defined, organic farming is a mystical mixture of 1930's
technology and new age religion designed to quell the fears of the gullible
wealthy in their fruitless search for a risk-free life."
-----Original Message-----
From:
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
[<mailto:[email protected]?>mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Bill Shoemaker
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 3:09 PM
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be fat too!
I agree. I wasn't really arguing with Ken. I just wonder when we will get to
live risk-free.
Bill
---- Original message ----
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 11:49:50 -0700
From: Robert kuljis <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be fat too!
To: "Apple-Crop"
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
I think that is a good point about the kaolin,,, I know the non ag
>formulations for pottery have all kinds of warnings for cancer,
inhalation threat, etc.. A simple particle mask would probably take
care of most of it. Not that it is that much fun to wear a mask all
the time while working in the trees. Of course there are lots of
unknowns with chemicals as well. The problem we have is that the
chemicals are extremely lucrative for giant companies who control much
of the university funding, so much less research and development goes
into non chemical methods. These methods could be much much cheaper.
Considering that conventional ag is responsible for at least 40% of
greenhouse gas emissions, mostly due to petroleum based fertilizer,
conversion to an ecological organic ag system seems to be not only
healthier, but a prerequisite for survival at this stage..
Some things that can help with the application of either organic or
chem materials would be monitoring, understanding the disease/pest life
cycle,, implementing and enhancing biological controls. These have come
a long way, but the scale of the efforts is much higher on the end of
the paradigm that wants growers to keep putting out chemicals whose
ultimate cost is much more then the $ amount paid.
Robert Kuljis
Thomas Paine Farms
On Jul 24, 2010, at 5:48 AM, Bill Shoemaker wrote:
I recently heard life is terminal. I think someone should do
something about that. Who's in charge here!
Bill
---- Original message ----
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 18:31:11 -0400
From: Ken Hall <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be fat too!
To: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
Is anyone familiar with work on human exposure to
kaolin clay in an orchard setting? A pulmonary
disease referred to as "kaolinosis" has been
identified in people who had high exposure to clay
dust. What about lower levels of exposure, year
after year, to orchard workers or pick-your-own
apple customers?
Not sure we can even say that kaolin is beyond
suspicion.
Ken Hall
Edwards Apple Orchard, Inc.
7061 Centerville Road
Poplar Grove, IL 61065
Ph: 815-765-2234
Fx: 815-765-1072
Cl: 815-520-5764
Email: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Fleming, William <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
To: Apple-Crop
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, Jul 23, 2010 4:31 pm
Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be
fat too!
I wouldn't say organic pesticides more toxic to
the environment but the fact that most are so broad
spectrum that they kill beneficials as well as
pests. That makes them unecological. as compared to
many of the modern pesticides that are very specific
in their targets. Plus many times when you kill the
beneficials you cause a whole new set of problems
that have to be addressed. You end up having to
spray even more.
Just the fact that organic pesticides are short
lived also makes them unecological in increased fuel
usage when several sprays may be needed to take the
place of one conventional material.
Bill Fleming
Montana State University
Western Ag Research Center
580 Quast Ln
Corvallis, Montana
----------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected]
[<mailto:[email protected]?>mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of
Robert kuljis
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 10:46 AM
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: RE:...and causes you to be
fat too!
I agree to buy local , but how can you say that
organic pesticides are more toxic to the
enviornment? Lets see, kaolin clay, entrust(soil
organism), pyrethreum(breaks down VERY fast, as
>>> opposed to synthetic version which last longer).
How are these more toxic then man made chemicals
which do not break down? they break down into
compounds that still have no analog in nature..
On Jul 23, 2010, at 8:18 AM,
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
wrote:
It is more important to know where your food is
grown! We have seen salmonella from melons and
scallions from Mexico and Asia. The USA has the Food
& Drug Administration that tightly regulates
pesticides and their application. Foreign foods do
not! Some pesticides are not applied to the food at
all but on small plastic tabs that are clipped on
branches to act as a deterrent to the bug. Organic
food growers use pesticides also, just more often
because the product does not last as long. Many
organic pesticides are more toxic to the environment
than the standard commercial grower uses. I know
because I am a commercial grower of apples.
Pesticides in the run off stream water from the home
gardener is one of the biggest offenders of
pollution. Consumers should use common sense and
wash everything raw before eating it. don't deprive
children of good nutrition because of a sensational
hit article that may be designed to garner
contributions to their non-profit cause. We grow
the safest food in the world. Support your local
farmer's market and buy American!
----------------------------------------------------
To: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
From: [email protected]
Subject: Apple-Crop: ...and causes you to be fat
too!
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 09:47:28 -0400
the current lead story on Yahoo
-
<http://shine..yahoo.com/event/loveyourbody/why-you-cant-lose->http://shine..yahoo.com/event/loveyourbody/why-you-cant-lose-
those-last-10-pounds-1964849/
"...See, an apple a day may have kept the doctor
away 250 years ago when Benjamin Franklin included
the phrase in his almanac. But if that apple comes
loaded with obesity-promoting chemicals - nine of
the ten most commonly used pesticides are obesogens,
and apples are one of the most pesticide-laden foods
out there - then Ben's advice is way out of
date...."
I look forward to market saturday -
David Doud -
grower - indiana
----------------------------------------------------
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Crops St Charles Horticulture Research Center
535 Randall Road St Charles, IL 60174 630-584-7254;
FAX-584-4610---------------------------------------------------------
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The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard
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Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent
"official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for
the content.
William H Shoemaker, UI-Crop Sciences
Sr Research Specialist, Food Crops
St Charles Horticulture Research Center
535 Randall Road St Charles, IL 60174
630-584-7254; FAX-584-4610
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