Bill,

MLR's are set by the EPA.  That's how they determine PHI's.

Mark Angermayer
Tubby Fruits

On 5/2/14, Fleming, William <[email protected]> wrote:
> Am I missing something here? Always thought it was the FDA not the EPA that
> regulated residues on food.
>
> Bill Fleming
> Montana State University
> Western Ag Research Center
> 580 Quast Lane
> Corvallis, MT 59828
>
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Weinzierl,
> Richard A
> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 7:22 PM
> To: Apple-crop discussion list
> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
>
> Amazing.
>
> First, I admit that I usually support new restrictions imposed by the US EPA
> in response to new tox data or standards because in general one can at least
> attribute the decisions to people who understand how to weigh scientific
> evidence ... and I do not expect that they will always agree with me, to one
> direction or the other. I probably do not agree with industry opposition to
> the EPA as often as many on this list-serve might think I should, but that's
> why we all should communicate.
>
> But ...  wow ... Apparently TYT (the young Turks) feel free to offer
> compelling opinions without any need to understand the issue in any
> substantive way.  One has to (NOT) love the web.  What a bunch of arrogant
> talking heads. Perhaps they should launch a vendetta on nitrosamines from
> BBQs as David R. brought up.  Or maybe even quit wearing any SYNTHETIC
> fabrics or burning any hydrocarbon fuels.  As others have posted ... those
> who eat lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, produced conventionally or
> organically, are the healthiest of all in our societies.
>
> I'll probably regret posting this ... but I do not understand how their
> opinions warrant anyone's attention.  Not Faux News, but just as faux.
>
> Ugh.  Let's hope academic freedom is a real thing, or I'll become a retired
> old new fruit grower a year or two before I planned to be.
>
> Rick Weinzierl
>
> Richard Weinzierl
> Professor and Extension Entomologist
> IL SARE PDP Coordinator
> Department of Crop Sciences, University of Illinois
> S-334 Turner Hall, 1102 S. Goodwin Avenue
> Urbana, IL 61801
> 217-244-2126
>
> From:
> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Stephen Jansky
> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 6:59 PM
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
>
> The YOUTUBE reaction to American Apples containing DHP....  Not good press
> for the U.S. Industry....
>
> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oEh1IbOKRBo
>
> Steve
> ________________________________
> From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:11:27 +0000
> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
> Hello Mike and all,
>
> The backdrop to the Irish opinion was, I believe, that a number of EU
> countries were more reliant on DPA than some others, and that Ireland,
> having a small apple industry (but nonetheless one in which about 30% of the
> fruit could have been DPA treated), was naturally inclined to be positively
> disposed to its continued use (under considerable lobbying pressure from our
> own apple growers association, and from some other countries).
>
> I do know that strong efforts were made by the task force to fill the
> supposed data gaps, but in the end they did not win out. So in the end, as
> you say the MRL was dropped not based on a definitive assessment of risk,
> but because, as I mentioned, there is a general policy thrust to remove
> nitrosamines from diet.
>
> Dave is correct to point out that there are uncontrollable sources of
> nitrosamines in diet, but thank goodness they have not begun regulating how
> people cook their foods at home yet. It would be interesting to compare the
> amount of nitrosamine in a typical diet due to BBQ's, compared with that
> which might come from DPA treated apples.
>
> 1-MCP is not a replacement for DPA, and a few years ago I had done some
> small-scale trials on using about 10% rates of DPA both without and in
> combination with 1-MCP, and found scald control to be very good in both
> cases, indicating that recommended DPA rates were probably too high to begin
> with. I think such combinations would have been the ideal solution, had DPA
> not been removed from the market, as CO2 injury is a serious risk with 1-MCP
> use, which is why we now must use higher-tech storage systems. Regarding the
> treatments with DPA at 10% of the recommended rate, residues were still
> detectable at about 0.1 to 0.05 ppm after 6 months of storage (unwashed
> apples). Even if we could guarantee the lower figure, because DPA has now
> been withdrawn, any residue found in a random test would be an issue, as use
> of an unapproved chemical is illegal (even if it leaves no residue).
>
> We have not got as far as Mosbah's idea of calling pesticides plant
> medicines, though the industry does use the phrase plant protectant
> products, even though the public still call them pesticides. It will take
> quite some time to change that, but the opportunity arises each time someone
> asks the question.
>
> Finally, regarding Jean-Marc's observation of reduced aroma, we have been
> able to offset this in some varieties (for example Elstar & clones, Pinova
> and Wellant) by a delayed harvest, which is in itself facilitated by the
> excellent ability of 1-MCP to stop these particular varieties ripening
> further. In this case we end up with firmer fresher-tasting apples which
> also have great aroma characteristics. For other varieties (e.g. Jonagold
> and clones), once ripening is under way the effect of 1-MCP is not so
> marked, so later harvest is not the solution.
>
> I would add that the advent of 1-MCP has changed my planting strategy from
> Jonagold type apples to Elstar type apples.
>
> Con
>
> From:
> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Willett
> Sent: 30 April 2014 06:36
> To: Apple-crop discussion list
> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
>
> As you can imagine, we have been following this issue very closely for a
> number of years.  According to the U.S. EPA's Registration Eligibility
> Decision for DPA, diphenyl nitrosamine is a trace contaminant in technical
> DPA.  In the most recent risk assessment (2012) done in the EU for DPA, by
> Ireland's Pesticide Registration & Control Division as the rapporteur member
> state (RMS), it came to this conclusion:
>
> "N-nitrosodiphenylamine is found at trace levels, below the LOQ in processed
> apple samples. When you consider the toxicological profile of this
> nitrosamine and the amounts at which it is likely to be consumed, the RMS
> calculations show that there are no safety concerns. One must also consider
> that diphenylamine is not applied to apples destined for the processing
> market, it is only applied to freshly consumed table apples, as appearance
> of these apples is very important.
>
> Therefore, the RMS remains supportive of the approval of diphenylamine."
>
> In the study that generated the opinion above which was done to address home
> processing of apples that were originally sold for fresh consumption, no
> nitrosamines were found in raw apples, nor in apple juice; only in blended
> and chopped apples ("processed" apples).
>
> The decision announced in March of this year indicates that the reason the
> MRL for DPA was reduced to 0.1 ppm was because of data gaps in the
> registration package that had been submitted.  The EU DPA Task Force has
> vigorously protested the allegation of data gaps but, at any rate, the
> reduction in the MRL in the EU was not based on a definitive assessment of
> risk.
>
> While I am not an expert in this area, given the discussion regarding 1-MCP,
> while it is very effective at preventing scald, work done by Jim Mattheis at
> USDA/ARS-Wenatchee and Chris Watkins at Cornell, notes that in certain
> situations use of 1-MCP can increase certain fruit disorders, some related
> to CO2 injury.  Many packers in the U.S. Pacific Northwest, now use lower
> rates of DPA in combination with 1-MCP to maximize its benefits.
>
> Mike Willett
> Northwest Horticultural Council
> www.nwhort.org<http://www.nwhort.org>
> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> 509.969.0245 mobile
>
> This message is from a remote location, sometimes truly remote.
> ________________________________
> From:
> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> [[email protected]] on behalf of David A. Rosenberger
> [[email protected]]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 10:46 AM
> To: Apple-crop discussion list
> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
> Hello, Con -
> Since grilling meat on a barbecue almost always creates some nitrosamines,
> I'm assuming that outdoor barbecues have also been banned in Europe? :)
>
> ****************************************************************
> Dave Rosenberger, Professor Emeritus
> Dept. of Plant Pathology and Plant-Microbe Biology
> Cornell's Hudson Valley Lab, P.O. Box 727, Highland, NY 12528
>        Office:  845-691-7231    Cell:     845-594-3060
>          http://blogs.cornell.edu/plantpathhvl/
> ****************************************************************
>
> On Apr 29, 2014, at 12:00 PM, Con.Traas
> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
> Hello Mosbah,
> The cost of smartfresh treatment here is about 10 euros (12 dollars?) per
> 330kg bin (700lbs approx.). It feels expensive, especially compared with
> DPA, which is very cheap. It does a lot more though.
> By the way, I think the issue with DPA from a European perspective is that
> when it degrades it forms one or more nitrosamines, which are a group of
> chemicals many of which are carcinogenic, though some much more-so than
> others. So the EU is seeking to eliminate all sources of nitrosamines from
> diets, and therefore DPA is gone.
> I do remember when DPA was "cleaned-up", but its breakdown products will be
> nitrosamines, regardless of how cleanly it is produced.
>
> Con
>
> ________________________________
> From:
> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> [[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>]
> on behalf of Kushad, Mosbah M
> [[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>]
> Sent: 28 April 2014 15:53
> To: Apple-crop discussion list
> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
> If you are asking about diphenylamine (DPA), then it is an antioxidants that
> blocks the oxidation of alpha farnesene into conjugated trienes in the peel.
> Conjugated trienes are what causes the apple/pear peel to turn brown from
> regular or superficial scald.  It doesn't help soft scald or sunscald.   In
> the old days they used to wrap fruits in paper soaked in mineral oil that
> absorbs the conjugated triene gas.  I have only scene this recently being
> practiced in one place.  To minimize superficial scald development, harvest
> fruits when they are horticulturally mature.  Ethoxyquin was removed from
> the market around the 80's  because it was suspected to cause cancer.
> However, DPA went through a rigorous cleaning process to remove any
> impurities that cause cancer.  If you are asking about 1-methylecyclopropene
> (1-MCP), also known as SmartFresh, it is an ethylene action inhibitor.
> Treated fruits produce ethylene but it does not work, because the sites
> where ethylene normally attaches itself, to initiate fruit ripening, are
> occupied by 1-MCP.  There is no evidence that  1-MCP causes any harm to
> human.    Some consider 1-MCP as the best thing since CA storage was
> introduced in the 30's -40's.   hope this helps, Mosbah Kushad, university
> of Illinois.
>
> Question to Con. What is the cost of using SmartFresh per bushel in your
> operation?
>
> From:
> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ginda Fisher
> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 7:08 AM
> To: Apple-crop discussion list; Con.Traas; 'Evan B. Milburn'; 'Apple-crop
> discussion list'
> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
>
> Can anyone summarize what this chemical is, why and how it is used, and what
> the risks might be to farmers and consumers from its use? I feel like I
> walked into the middle of a conversation.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Typed with Swype. Who knows what I meant to say?
> On April 28, 2014 4:03:51 AM EDT, "Con.Traas"
> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> Hello Evan and everybody,
>
> Coming from my perspective, where we are now having to cope without DPA for
> storing Bramley (culinary) apples, I must say that is it proving tricky, but
> we are managing, through use of 1-MCP combined with more complex (and
> expensive and risky) storage regimes. So I would say it is technically
> possible to keep apples without DPA or ethoxyquin, which we also can't use,
> but ironically it mitigates against the smaller grower, and in favour of the
> larger ones (big ag?) who can afford the higher tech gear.
>
> It is ironic that scaring people about pesticide residues on fresh foods
> (especially fruits) actually causes people to eat more processed foods (as
> though their ingredients do not also get pesticide treatments), as the
> studies linking better health with fruit consumption are studies conducted
> with conventionally grown fruits with their pesticide residues (if they are
> not residue free). In other words, the benefits of eating fruits and
> vegetables are there in black and white, even if those fruits and vegetables
> have residues. It is far less healthy to switch to a candy bar from an
> apple, even if that apple has some residue (so long as that is below
> permitted levels). However, this is not a message we can send out, so we are
> left grappling when emails like this from EWG are circulated.
>
> The joke of what EWG seems to be doing is producing a dirty dozen or clean
> fifteen list is that those lists say nothing at all about the risk of a
> pesticide residue on the particular apple in your fruit-bowl. You could be
> eating a residue-free fruit from among the "dirty dozen", or one covered in
> pesticide from among the "clean fifteen".
>
> Despite the differences in regulations between Europe and the US (and I
> favour in general the less permissive, more cautious European standards,
> despite having to work within their restrictions), our agriculture here is
> constantly increasing in scale, and resembles more and more what would be
> our stereotyped image of US industrial agriculture. That is because the
> regulations have more in common than what separates them, and farming is
> becoming more and more like a business, and less like a passion.
>
> I am personally not a fan of industrial agriculture, although I employ
> mostly similar methods. However, motivation is a key factor, and for me, the
> motivation is not profit maximisation. For the industrial model is about
> profit before all else, and that is not a suitable way for the World to
> produce its food.
>
> However, as long as Joe public takes the attitude that 7% of their
> disposable income is what they will spend on food (that is the Irish %),
> then agriculture will continue to become more industrial, as for me that is
> not a percentage that can support the production of produce and foods that
> consumers might feel more comfortable buying, and might be able to have more
> confidence in.
>
> So, instead of sending 45 bucks to Ken Cook, I would suggest that Joe public
> either sends it to a principled (and hopefully small-scale) farmer someplace
> near them, or better still, buys a few fruit trees or invests in a few
> packets of seeds, and grows their own pesticide-free produce.
>
> Con Traas
> European (Irish) Apple Grower
> T: @theapplefarmer
>
> From:
> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Evan B. Milburn
> Sent: 28 April 2014 02:32
> To: Apple-Crop
> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
>
>   This was sent to me from a friend of mine by the name of George. It was
> send to him from one of his co-workers.
>                                                Evan Milburn
>
> www.milburnorchards.com<http://www.milburnorchards.com/>
>
>
> Hey Evan what's this all about?
>
>
>
>
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>
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