Lucky for consumers that USDA publishes residue quantities, because FDA and EPA would never annoy the chemical industry by releasing such info. Anyhow, because of USDA we know that malathion residues and metabolites are more common on blueberries than any other food, according to the USDA report a couple of years back. Pretty good reason to choose organic blueberries. The other agencies love to study the health effects of chemicals one at a time, ignoring the interactions with other chemicals. Beekeepers are beginning to understand the hollowness of those studies. -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 5/2/14, Mark & Helen Angermayer <angermay...@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals To: "Apple-crop discussion list" <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> Date: Friday, May 2, 2014, 11:04 PM Richard, I may be going on a limb here, but I thought the USDA did the market basket surveys to determine residues on food. I believe the EWG list of the "Dirty Dozen" comes from the USDA surveys. Are there other surveys done by the FDA? Mark Angermayer On 5/2/14, Weinzierl, Richard A <weinz...@illinois.edu> wrote: > All, > > To my understanding, Mark has it right. In the US, the US EPA registers and > sets tolerances (or MRLs) for pesticides and growth regulator compounds. > FDA does market basket surveys and import surveys to determine residues on > foods that consumers buy ... and the residues are generally WAY below > established tolerances or MRLs (with very few isolated exceptions). But it > is indeed the US EPA who makes the regulatory decisions on field uses. > > And just to be clear ... my rant yesterday was NOT about the discussion that > has been ongoing on this list for a couple of days but was directed at the > video that Steve Jansky called to our attention ... > http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oEh1IbOKRBo. > > Rick > > Richard Weinzierl > Professor and Extension Entomologist > IL SARE PDP Coordinator > Department of Crop Sciences, University of Illinois > S-334 Turner Hall, 1102 S. Goodwin Avenue > Urbana, IL 61801 > 217-244-2126 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net > [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Mark & Helen > Angermayer > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 1:20 PM > To: Apple-crop discussion list > Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals > > I meant to type MRL, not MLR. > > Mark > > On 5/2/14, Mark & Helen Angermayer <angermay...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Bill, >> >> MLR's are set by the EPA. That's how they determine PHI's. >> >> Mark Angermayer >> Tubby Fruits >> >> On 5/2/14, Fleming, William <w...@exchange.montana.edu> wrote: >>> Am I missing something here? Always thought it was the FDA not the >>> EPA that regulated residues on food. >>> >>> Bill Fleming >>> Montana State University >>> Western Ag Research Center >>> 580 Quast Lane >>> Corvallis, MT 59828 >>> >>> From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net >>> [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of >>> Weinzierl, Richard A >>> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 7:22 PM >>> To: Apple-crop discussion list >>> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals >>> >>> Amazing. >>> >>> First, I admit that I usually support new restrictions imposed by the >>> US EPA in response to new tox data or standards because in general >>> one can at least attribute the decisions to people who understand how >>> to weigh scientific evidence ... and I do not expect that they will >>> always agree with me, to one direction or the other. I probably do >>> not agree with industry opposition to the EPA as often as many on >>> this list-serve might think I should, but that's why we all should >>> communicate. >>> >>> But ... wow ... Apparently TYT (the young Turks) feel free to offer >>> compelling opinions without any need to understand the issue in any >>> substantive way. One has to (NOT) love the web. What a bunch of >>> arrogant talking heads. Perhaps they should launch a vendetta on >>> nitrosamines from BBQs as David R. brought up. Or maybe even quit >>> wearing any SYNTHETIC fabrics or burning any hydrocarbon fuels. As >>> others have posted ... >>> those >>> who eat lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, produced conventionally >>> or organically, are the healthiest of all in our societies. >>> >>> I'll probably regret posting this ... but I do not understand how >>> their opinions warrant anyone's attention. Not Faux News, but just as >>> faux. >>> >>> Ugh. Let's hope academic freedom is a real thing, or I'll become a >>> retired old new fruit grower a year or two before I planned to be. >>> >>> Rick Weinzierl >>> >>> Richard Weinzierl >>> Professor and Extension Entomologist >>> IL SARE PDP Coordinator >>> Department of Crop Sciences, University of Illinois >>> S-334 Turner Hall, 1102 S. Goodwin Avenue Urbana, IL 61801 >>> 217-244-2126 >>> >>> From: >>> apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop-bounces@virtu >>> alorchard.net> [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On >>> Behalf Of Stephen Jansky >>> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 6:59 PM >>> To: >>> apple-crop@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> >>> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals >>> >>> The YOUTUBE reaction to American Apples containing DHP.... Not good >>> press for the U.S. Industry.... >>> >>> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oEh1IbOKRBo >>> >>> Steve >>> ________________________________ >>> From: con.tr...@ul.ie<mailto:con.tr...@ul.ie> >>> To: >>> apple-crop@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> >>> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:11:27 +0000 >>> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Hello Mike and all, >>> >>> The backdrop to the Irish opinion was, I believe, that a number of EU >>> countries were more reliant on DPA than some others, and that >>> Ireland, having a small apple industry (but nonetheless one in which >>> about 30% of the fruit could have been DPA treated), was naturally >>> inclined to be positively disposed to its continued use (under >>> considerable lobbying pressure from our own apple growers >>> association, and from some other countries). >>> >>> I do know that strong efforts were made by the task force to fill the >>> supposed data gaps, but in the end they did not win out. So in the >>> end, as you say the MRL was dropped not based on a definitive >>> assessment of risk, but because, as I mentioned, there is a general >>> policy thrust to remove nitrosamines from diet. >>> >>> Dave is correct to point out that there are uncontrollable sources of >>> nitrosamines in diet, but thank goodness they have not begun >>> regulating how people cook their foods at home yet. It would be >>> interesting to compare the amount of nitrosamine in a typical diet >>> due to BBQ's, compared with that which might come from DPA treated >>> apples. >>> >>> 1-MCP is not a replacement for DPA, and a few years ago I had done >>> some small-scale trials on using about 10% rates of DPA both without >>> and in combination with 1-MCP, and found scald control to be very >>> good in both cases, indicating that recommended DPA rates were >>> probably too high to begin with. I think such combinations would have >>> been the ideal solution, had DPA not been removed from the market, as >>> CO2 injury is a serious risk with 1-MCP use, which is why we now must >>> use higher-tech storage systems. Regarding the treatments with DPA at >>> 10% of the recommended rate, residues were still detectable at about >>> 0.1 to 0.05 ppm after 6 months of storage (unwashed apples). Even if >>> we could guarantee the lower figure, because DPA has now been >>> withdrawn, any residue found in a random test would be an issue, as >>> use of an unapproved chemical is illegal (even if it leaves no >>> residue). >>> >>> We have not got as far as Mosbah's idea of calling pesticides plant >>> medicines, though the industry does use the phrase plant protectant >>> products, even though the public still call them pesticides. It will >>> take quite some time to change that, but the opportunity arises each >>> time someone asks the question. >>> >>> Finally, regarding Jean-Marc's observation of reduced aroma, we have >>> been able to offset this in some varieties (for example Elstar & >>> clones, Pinova and Wellant) by a delayed harvest, which is in itself >>> facilitated by the excellent ability of 1-MCP to stop these >>> particular varieties ripening further. In this case we end up with >>> firmer fresher-tasting apples which also have great aroma >>> characteristics. For other varieties (e.g. Jonagold and clones), once >>> ripening is under way the effect of 1-MCP is not so marked, so later >>> harvest is not the solution. >>> >>> I would add that the advent of 1-MCP has changed my planting strategy >>> from Jonagold type apples to Elstar type apples. >>> >>> Con >>> >>> From: >>> apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop-bounces@virtu >>> alorchard.net> [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On >>> Behalf Of Mike Willett >>> Sent: 30 April 2014 06:36 >>> To: Apple-crop discussion list >>> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals >>> >>> As you can imagine, we have been following this issue very closely >>> for a number of years. According to the U.S. EPA's Registration >>> Eligibility Decision for DPA, diphenyl nitrosamine is a trace >>> contaminant in technical DPA. In the most recent risk assessment >>> (2012) done in the EU for DPA, by Ireland's Pesticide Registration & >>> Control Division as the rapporteur member state (RMS), it came to >>> this conclusion: >>> >>> "N-nitrosodiphenylamine is found at trace levels, below the LOQ in >>> processed apple samples. When you consider the toxicological profile >>> of this nitrosamine and the amounts at which it is likely to be >>> consumed, the RMS calculations show that there are no safety >>> concerns. One must also consider that diphenylamine is not applied to >>> apples destined for the processing market, it is only applied to >>> freshly consumed table apples, as appearance of these apples is very >>> important. >>> >>> Therefore, the RMS remains supportive of the approval of diphenylamine." >>> >>> In the study that generated the opinion above which was done to >>> address home processing of apples that were originally sold for fresh >>> consumption, no nitrosamines were found in raw apples, nor in apple >>> juice; only in blended and chopped apples ("processed" apples). >>> >>> The decision announced in March of this year indicates that the >>> reason the MRL for DPA was reduced to 0.1 ppm was because of data >>> gaps in the registration package that had been submitted. The EU DPA >>> Task Force has vigorously protested the allegation of data gaps but, >>> at any rate, the reduction in the MRL in the EU was not based on a >>> definitive assessment of risk. >>> >>> While I am not an expert in this area, given the discussion regarding >>> 1-MCP, while it is very effective at preventing scald, work done by >>> Jim Mattheis at USDA/ARS-Wenatchee and Chris Watkins at Cornell, >>> notes that in certain situations use of 1-MCP can increase certain >>> fruit disorders, some related to CO2 injury. Many packers in the >>> U.S. Pacific Northwest, now use lower rates of DPA in combination >>> with 1-MCP to maximize its benefits. >>> >>> Mike Willett >>> Northwest Horticultural Council >>> www.nwhort.org<http://www.nwhort.org> >>> will...@nwhort.org<mailto:will...@nwhort.org> >>> 509.969.0245 mobile >>> >>> This message is from a remote location, sometimes truly remote. >>> ________________________________ >>> From: >>> apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop-bounces@virtu >>> alorchard.net> [apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] on behalf of >>> David A. Rosenberger [da...@cornell.edu] >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 10:46 AM >>> To: Apple-crop discussion list >>> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Hello, Con - Since >>> grilling meat on a barbecue almost always creates some nitrosamines, >>> I'm assuming that outdoor barbecues have also been banned in Europe? >>> :) >>> >>> **************************************************************** >>> Dave Rosenberger, Professor Emeritus >>> Dept. of Plant Pathology and Plant-Microbe Biology Cornell's Hudson >>> Valley Lab, P.O. Box 727, Highland, NY 12528 >>> Office: 845-691-7231 Cell: 845-594-3060 >>> http://blogs.cornell.edu/plantpathhvl/ >>> **************************************************************** >>> >>> On Apr 29, 2014, at 12:00 PM, Con.Traas >>> <con.tr...@ul.ie<mailto:con.tr...@ul.ie>> wrote: >>> >>> Hello Mosbah, >>> The cost of smartfresh treatment here is about 10 euros (12 dollars?) >>> per 330kg bin (700lbs approx.). It feels expensive, especially >>> compared with DPA, which is very cheap. It does a lot more though. >>> By the way, I think the issue with DPA from a European perspective is >>> that when it degrades it forms one or more nitrosamines, which are a >>> group of chemicals many of which are carcinogenic, though some much >>> more-so than others. So the EU is seeking to eliminate all sources of >>> nitrosamines from diets, and therefore DPA is gone. >>> I do remember when DPA was "cleaned-up", but its breakdown products >>> will be nitrosamines, regardless of how cleanly it is produced. >>> >>> Con >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: >>> apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop-bounces@virtu >>> alorchard.net> >>> [apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop-bounces@virt >>> ualorchard.net>] >>> on behalf of Kushad, Mosbah M >>> [kus...@illinois.edu<mailto:kus...@illinois.edu>] >>> Sent: 28 April 2014 15:53 >>> To: Apple-crop discussion list >>> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals If you are asking >>> about diphenylamine (DPA), then it is an antioxidants that blocks the >>> oxidation of alpha farnesene into conjugated trienes in the peel. >>> Conjugated trienes are what causes the apple/pear peel to turn brown >>> from regular or superficial scald. It doesn't help soft scald or >>> sunscald. >>> In >>> the old days they used to wrap fruits in paper soaked in mineral oil >>> that absorbs the conjugated triene gas. I have only scene this >>> recently being practiced in one place. To minimize superficial scald >>> development, harvest fruits when they are horticulturally mature. >>> Ethoxyquin was removed from the market around the 80's because it >>> was suspected to cause cancer. >>> However, DPA went through a rigorous cleaning process to remove any >>> impurities that cause cancer. If you are asking about >>> 1-methylecyclopropene (1-MCP), also known as SmartFresh, it is an >>> ethylene action inhibitor. >>> Treated fruits produce ethylene but it does not work, because the >>> sites where ethylene normally attaches itself, to initiate fruit >>> ripening, are occupied by 1-MCP. There is no evidence that 1-MCP causes >>> any harm to >>> human. Some consider 1-MCP as the best thing since CA storage was >>> introduced in the 30's -40's. hope this helps, Mosbah Kushad, >>> university >>> of Illinois. >>> >>> Question to Con. What is the cost of using SmartFresh per bushel in >>> your operation? >>> >>> From: >>> apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop-bounces@virtu >>> alorchard.net> [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On >>> Behalf Of Ginda Fisher >>> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 7:08 AM >>> To: Apple-crop discussion list; Con.Traas; 'Evan B. Milburn'; >>> 'Apple-crop discussion list' >>> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals >>> >>> Can anyone summarize what this chemical is, why and how it is used, >>> and what the risks might be to farmers and consumers from its use? I >>> feel like I walked into the middle of a conversation. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> -- >>> Typed with Swype. Who knows what I meant to say? >>> On April 28, 2014 4:03:51 AM EDT, "Con.Traas" >>> <con.tr...@ul.ie<mailto:con.tr...@ul.ie>> wrote: >>> Hello Evan and everybody, >>> >>> Coming from my perspective, where we are now having to cope without >>> DPA for storing Bramley (culinary) apples, I must say that is it >>> proving tricky, but we are managing, through use of 1-MCP combined >>> with more complex (and expensive and risky) storage regimes. So I >>> would say it is technically possible to keep apples without DPA or >>> ethoxyquin, which we also can't use, but ironically it mitigates >>> against the smaller grower, and in favour of the larger ones (big >>> ag?) who can afford the higher tech gear. >>> >>> It is ironic that scaring people about pesticide residues on fresh >>> foods (especially fruits) actually causes people to eat more >>> processed foods (as though their ingredients do not also get >>> pesticide treatments), as the studies linking better health with >>> fruit consumption are studies conducted with conventionally grown >>> fruits with their pesticide residues (if they are not residue free). >>> In other words, the benefits of eating fruits and vegetables are >>> there in black and white, even if those fruits and vegetables have >>> residues. It is far less healthy to switch to a candy bar from an >>> apple, even if that apple has some residue (so long as that is below >>> permitted levels). However, this is not a message we can send out, so >>> we are left grappling when emails like this from EWG are circulated. >>> >>> The joke of what EWG seems to be doing is producing a dirty dozen or >>> clean fifteen list is that those lists say nothing at all about the >>> risk of a pesticide residue on the particular apple in your >>> fruit-bowl. You could be eating a residue-free fruit from among the >>> "dirty dozen", or one covered in pesticide from among the "clean >>> fifteen". >>> >>> Despite the differences in regulations between Europe and the US (and >>> I favour in general the less permissive, more cautious European >>> standards, despite having to work within their restrictions), our >>> agriculture here is constantly increasing in scale, and resembles >>> more and more what would be our stereotyped image of US industrial >>> agriculture. That is because the regulations have more in common than >>> what separates them, and farming is becoming more and more like a >>> business, and less like a passion. >>> >>> I am personally not a fan of industrial agriculture, although I >>> employ mostly similar methods. However, motivation is a key factor, >>> and for me, the motivation is not profit maximisation. For the >>> industrial model is about profit before all else, and that is not a >>> suitable way for the World to produce its food. >>> >>> However, as long as Joe public takes the attitude that 7% of their >>> disposable income is what they will spend on food (that is the Irish >>> %), then agriculture will continue to become more industrial, as for >>> me that is not a percentage that can support the production of >>> produce and foods that consumers might feel more comfortable buying, >>> and might be able to have more confidence in. >>> >>> So, instead of sending 45 bucks to Ken Cook, I would suggest that Joe >>> public either sends it to a principled (and hopefully small-scale) >>> farmer someplace near them, or better still, buys a few fruit trees >>> or invests in a few packets of seeds, and grows their own >>> pesticide-free produce. >>> >>> Con Traas >>> European (Irish) Apple Grower >>> T: @theapplefarmer >>> >>> From: >>> apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop-bounces@virtu >>> alorchard.net> [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On >>> Behalf Of Evan B. >>> Milburn >>> Sent: 28 April 2014 02:32 >>> To: Apple-Crop >>> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals >>> >>> This was sent to me from a friend of mine by the name of George. It >>> was send to him from one of his co-workers. >>> Evan Milburn >>> >>> www.milburnorchards.com<http://www.milburnorchards.com/> >>> >>> >>> Hey Evan what's this all about? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> apple-crop mailing list >>> apple-crop@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> >>> http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ apple-crop mailing >>> list >>> apple-crop@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> >>> http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > apple-crop mailing list > apple-crop@virtualorchard.net > http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop > _______________________________________________ > apple-crop mailing list > apple-crop@virtualorchard.net > http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop > _______________________________________________ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop _______________________________________________ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
