Hi Cathy,
how can one verify where address space is used? Do you verify the AS
announcing it, and what if that AS is globally routed and it peers with
various organisations within several service regions? Do you ping the
address to see how long it takes for the Pong to come back to you?
These RIR bordes are artificial and have nothing to do with operational
reality. One can route the address space it gets from/to anywhere in the
world, especially if it has a Tier1/2 provider which offers global services.
There has been a simple workaround available for years. Have a look at
the RIPE Database split files and see how many inetnums have country
code US. You will be surprised :)
You can always announce a /16 in the RIPE region and two /17s in the
ARIN region and then the 'requirement' of having the space announced in
the RIPE region is satisfied, right?
It's just that all the traffic will flow to the router announcing the
two /17s.
Plus, the RIPE NCC allocates only a /22 from the last /8. So, if you
become a member and have a router somewhere in Europe where you will
need to use at least a few addresses and therefore you qualify to
receive the /22. RIPE NCC will not complain if the /24 used for that
router/equipment is announced in the RIPE region and the rest in an
other region where you may have other equipment and/or customers.
Additionally, once you are a member and request a transfer, the only
thing you need to fill in is the transfer agreement template and confirm
that you are requesting the transfer in order to make assignments from
the allocation. It does not matter to whom you make those assignments or
where these will be used.
http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/resource-management/ipv4-transfers/transfer-agreement-template
Lastly, the RIPE NCC SSA (the contract) does not say anything about
where the resources can be used and the _current policies_ are at best
*vague*.
For example, the RIPE IPv4 policy says:
"1.0 Introduction
The RIPE NCC is an independent association and serves as one of five
Regional Internet Registries (RIRs). Its service region incorporates
Europe, the Middle East, and Central Asia. The RIPE NCC is responsible
for the allocation and assignment of Internet Protocol (IP) address
space, Autonomous System Numbers (ASNs) and the management of reverse
domain names within this region.
[...]
1.1 Scope
This document describes the policies for the responsible management of
globally unique IPv4 Internet address space in the RIPE NCC service
region. The policies documented here apply to all IPv4 address space
allocated and assigned by the RIPE NCC."
There is no document saying that the address space allocated by the RIPE
NCC can only be used in the RIPE service region.
As far as I have seen ARIN is only now trying to limit the use of the
address space it allocates to it's service region. I do not think a
similar policy proposal would fly in the RIPE community.
We live in a global world, most large companies have operations in more
than one region. I think these organisations should have only one RIR
handle their addresses and the RIRs should mirror the databases of the
other RIRs to avoid duplicate registration. My impression is that the
RIPE NCC is the only RIR that is currently mirroring the other RIR
databases and making steps towards what I think should become at some
point a unique point of data collection.
cheers,
elvis
PS: the views above are my own and have nothing to do with my previous
or current employer
On 05/06/14 14:23, CJ Aronson wrote:
I asked a colleague at the RIPE NCC regarding this question of getting
address space from RIPE.
She said, "We accept organisations that are
incorporated in other regions as members. But we require that the
address space we allocate will be used/announced in the RIPE NCC service
region."
----Cathy
On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 8:31 PM, CJ Aronson <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Let's be clear.. the RIPE NCC will only give a one-time /22 for
your 1600 Euros/year. RIPE has always made applicants prove a
business presense in the region and I believe that's what the
"
*
The name of the "Chamber of Commerce" where your company is
registered
o
For example, Companies House, KvK etc."
Is referring to. The link is here for your reference:
http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/member-support/become-a-member/application
You'll have to apply and see.
If you want more than a /22 you'll have to go to the transfer market.
----Cathy
On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 8:24 PM, Elvis Velea <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi John,
On 05/06/14 04:05, John Von Stein wrote:
Elvis,
So does that mean a US based ISP such as QxC wanted / needed
an additional IPv4 allocation we could simply go to RIPE and
get the IPv4 we want/need?
yup :) and only for €1600/year and with no transfer fees :)
cheers,
elvis
Thank you,
John W. Von Stein
cid:sigimg0@791f5d9d52446f85c6fed00adec61823
102 NE 2^nd Street
Suite 136
Boca Raton, FL 33432
Office: 561-288-6989 <tel:561-288-6989>
www.QxCcommunications.com <http://www.qxccommunications.com/>
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential
and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity
to whom they are addressed.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Elvis Velea
Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 9:35 PM
To: David Huberman
Cc: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers
Hi David,
even further... for those that do not know yet, any legal or
private person can become a member of the RIPE NCC while the
ARIN policies/procedures still require a company to have a
legal presence in the ARIN region in order to request resources.
And, btw.. have I already mentioned that the RIPE Community
has completely removed the demonstrated need from their
policy? I think I was only discussing this matter in the
APNIC mailing lists and maybe those subscribed to this
mailing list should also be aware of.
cheers,
elvis
On 05/06/14 03:30, David Huberman wrote:
> I agree completely, Elvis. There's an argument to be made
that if ARIN won't be flexible with transfer policy, that
RIPE becomes the most useful RIR for operators to work
within. There's a further argument that's been made that the
time for regional IRs may be passed (past?) and that IETF
should review the situation.
>
> David R Huberman
> Microsoft Corporation
> Senior IT/OPS Program Manager (GFS)
>
> ________________________________________
> From: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> on
> behalf of Elvis Velea <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 6:21:52 PM
> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers
>
> Hi David,
>
> On 05/06/14 02:21, David Huberman wrote:
>> We're going to be a cross-roads very soon. ARIN is going
to exhaust, and network operators will be unable to obtain
additional IPv4 address blocks from ARIN. At that point, the
most obvious solution for IPv4 needs will be the market.
> And then, they will be able to register as RIPE NCC members
(LIRs) and
> receive as many IP addresses as they want without having to
prove any
> demonstrated need. All they will need to do is to confirm
that they
> will use these addresses for themselves or their customers.
>
>> Proper stewardship of the ARIN function demands that
ARIN policy adjust to what happens in the market. It's not
the other way around, if only because that's not how markets
work.
>>
>> The ARIN CEO, ARIN's General Counsel, the Harvard
economist ARIN pays, professors who study markets, brokers
who operate in the market, and buyers and sellers who buy and
sell in the market have all told the ARIN community the same
story for around 5 years now: the market is going to act as a
market, and ARIN policy needs to be ready for it; ARIN policy
needs to make sense with the dynamics of the market.
>>
>> It's hard to know how to argue with operators like Owen
and the
>> Google folks who all say the opposite; that ARIN policy
should stick
>> to the same ideals as 1995 (important ideals for a very
long time!)
>> and not adjust. I fear the results of this kind of
ostracism :(
> Well, then let them slowly kill the ARIN function. If all
ARIN members
> can no longer get resources and they stop paying and go to the
> cheapest RIR (which btw is RIPE NCC with EUR1600/year no
matter how
> many resources one has) and get as many resources they
want... what do
> you think will happen?
>
> cheers,
> elvis
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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