I think John already provided good information about this topic in the
other message. What I have to say is that people believe in what
normally makes them feel better, not necessarily in what it really is.
The RIR Registry has ways to enforce its policies and is backed for
that, even if it happens to have to go to court. Not only lack of
payment may revoke someone's space but also lack of justification.
People may not know that the RIR may ask anyone to justify their usage
for the allocation if they believing one is stockpiling. And if the
company fails to justify they will be revoked. It is simple as that.
That's how it has always been, since the early days and is well
documented and can be easily found by any technical person or by a judge
analyzing a dispute upon this.
Doesn't really matter if there have been many or just few cases, but
that there are rules that regulate this and that people previously
agreed with them before taking any space from the RIR, so it is enough
for a court to rule that RIR is correct in what is being done in such
case. One can pay the most expensive lawyer and as a result will only
buy him an extra house or car as the RIR is well covered on its action.
Fernando
On 02/05/2019 19:21, William Herrin wrote:
On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 8:45 AM Fernando Frediani <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Not sure if this is really the main discussion but the point about
owning IP addresses was an example of something that is actually
the correct way it works, despite what happens in practice people
don't own it, cannot sell it (even if they believe they have the
absolute right to sell - excluding legacy cases). The fact is that
it CAN be revoked as it is not their property as something that
you buy.
Fernando,
Respectfully, you can repeat that claim as much as you want but until
ARIN actually tries and then survives a precedent-setting court
challenge it's just a theory and not, IMHO, a strong one,
As we evaluate the proposal, legal risk is one of the things we'll
want to consider. If ARIN tries to enforce a revocation and loses, the
policies which permit them to reject registration changes land on much
shakier ground. ARIN could end up a pure registry without any policy
role despite what its members want. That's one reason the organization
has been so reluctant to try.
On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 9:46 AM John Curran <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> ARIN has full operational control over the ARIN registry, so if you
believe that your issued IP address blocks are the rights to specific
entries in the ARIN registry, then you certainly don’t have any
property rights to same. ARIN does administer the ARIN registry in
accordance with the community-developed policies. and that enforcement
includes revocations of address space from parties for reasons other
than non-payment.
>
> If you believe that your “IP addresses” are something other than the
assigned rights to entries in the ARIN registry, then that’s fine -
many people in this world have interesting beliefs, but that doesn’t
affect in the least the ability of ARIN to administer its registry per
the community-developed policies.
John,
I own 199.33.224.0/23 <http://199.33.224.0/23>. That little corner of
the Internet address space is mine. If you think ARIN can change its
registration such that an ISP will no longer determine from looking up
the record that I have the exclusive right to those addresses on the
Internet and you think ARIN will survive a suit for tortious
interference and whatever else a lawyer and I can come up with as a
consequence, go right ahead and change it.
I don't think you can. I'm very confident you won't. ARIN's history in
court is one of settlement after settlement, carefully avoiding having
the judge set a precedent even when policies had to be stretched to
breaking like they were for Microsoft/Nortel.
Actions speak louder than words. ARIN's actions say it's not at all
confident it has the power you suggest here. Your actions have
credibility. I believe them.
Regards,
Bill Herrin
--
William Herrin ................ [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>
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