>Pointing at the guy at the top feels good, but really accomplishes nothing unless they are breaking the law.
I *totally* disagree. As customers, we have the right and *duty* to complain about any practice a company engages in that we disagree with. Saying that complaining "feels good but does nothing" is equivalent to saying, "Shut up and color" in my book. If you get a bad meal in a restaurant, you complain. If you buy something from Walmart and it breaks, you return it. If your NFL team goes 0-8 (as mine has), you boo. Nothing changes if you sit idly by and say, "Oh, well...that's just the way it is..." -----Original Message----- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Axton Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 2:26 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: OT-Support Question - Whine - Rant - Ignore me! (UNCLASSIFIED) The numbers are just guesses. Don't quote me on the exact difference; it's not relavant. You also have to consider the difference in health costs and other compensation in various countries. What a health plan in Canada vs US vs India vs Malaysia, ... varies greatly. I can guarantee you the cost of medical coverage in the US is the highest anywhere on the planet. >From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care: Brunei, India, Kuwait, Qatar, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Israel [25] Japan, Malaysia, New Zealand, South Korea, Seychelles, Sri Lanka[26], Taiwan[27] and Thailand have universal health care. India has partial universal health care system run by the local governments. The "government hospitals", some of which are among the best hospitals in India[30], provide treatment at taxpayer cost. Selected drugs are offered free of charge in some hospitals. The point here is that companies will bend as far as they can to make money. Pointing at the guy at the top feels good, but really accomplishes nothing unless they are breaking the law. Our economic system is designed to push companies to strive for lower costs and higher productivity. It is what it is. As for people being taken advantage of overseas, everything is relative. What percentage of people in these countries live without running water, electricity, sanitation... How much does it cost to live, relatively well, in such a place. If you make $10/day and you can live on $5/day, you're doing pretty good. If you move from a place where you have no running water, sanitation, and electricity to a place where you do, guess how living on $10/day feels. Would you go on strike in such a case? You have to understand that the lifestyle to which people become accustomed is very different in different parts of the world. Back to the point, if we expect to see companies change their practices, the laws have to change. The unfortunate side effect of changes to the law are the unforeseen consequences that follow. Do companies start to move their headquarters to other countries to meet labor demands, stay competitive, ... ? Do certain countries start to have a large influx of populations to meet the demand for jobs if they can no longer move overseas, thus stressing the existing infrastructure? It's a tricky question to which no answer will please the majority. Axton Grams On Nov 6, 2007 2:43 PM, FRANK, GORDON CTR DISA JSSC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED > Caveats: NONE > > I can't believe that other countries are only making $10/day with no > benefits. The Help Desk reps in India are very skilled and very good and > I'm sure they are compensated pretty well. I could be wrong, but what > happens when this source realizes they have been taken advantage of. > Where do we go then? Mars?? > > I think the major complaint is they are hard to understand. They speak > English, but they tend to speak very rapidly (which is a credit to their > speaking ability, because they understand each other and us slowwwwwww > Americans can understand them.) If there are any India listeners out > there, please have patience with the American culture and language. > > I believe there are a few Help Desks in rural America. Has anybody had > experience with any of these? > > Gordon M. Frank > DISA\Version FNS > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Axton > Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 2:33 PM > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: OT-Support Question - Whine - Rant - Ignore me! > (UNCLASSIFIED) > > To some degree this is true. In a competitive market, companies will do > whatever they can, legally (most of the time), to remain competitive. > This means that when one company dips to new lows, others will typically > follow if it works. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work the other > way; when companies operate at a higher level, they are eaten by their > competitors because they can not remain competitive. > > This is why we have laws in place to regulate certain types of actions > and practices. Laws are intended to set the minimum at which entities > are expected to act. Sometimes it becomes necessary for the government > to become involved by either raising or lowering the bar so far as the > minimum of what is acceptable (legal). > > There are arguments on both sides of this dichotomy: > - there are only so many skilled workers of a given type in a given > geographical region > - there are large discrepancies in what is required in terms of > compensation for different geographical regions (10USD/day vs. > 10USD/hr) > - reputation - which takes a long time to build and only a moment to > destroy (this seems to be undervalued these days, probably because there > is no way to easily correlate a price tag to it) > - quality - there are good people on both sides of the pond; practical > experience, language barriers, time differences, etc. tend to be impact > people's perception of quality > > Axton Grams > > On Nov 6, 2007 2:03 PM, Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >It sounds harsh, but BMC doesn't appear to be willing to pay the > > price-tag associated with treating their support helpdesk people the > > way they, themselves expect to be treated in their own country. > > Overseas manpower is cheap for a reason. > > > > It's not harsh at all. Outsourcing jobs from Europe and the US to > > places like India and the Philippines is, quite simply, the new form > > of serfdom. I don't care who does it--it's just an under-the-table > > trick to avoid having to abide by modern fair labor laws. You know, > > the ones about minimum wage, workman's comp, safe workplaces, etc. > > > > >Given how niche of a market Remedy is ... for how incredibly large > > >the > > price-tag for Remedy ... for how pricey SUPPORT, ITSELF IS (which is > > separate from the actual licensing) ... I simply can't believe that > > there isn't the profit margin to afford to hire quality, native > > English language support inside the US or EU. > > > > Of course they can afford it! They simply choose not to. By > > outsourcing, you increase company profits in the short-term. That > > drives the stock price up (temporarily) and allows top executives to > > qualify for their annual performance bonuses. > > > > Do I sound cynical? Maybe. But I guarantee you this is true. > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > _________ > > > > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum > > Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > _______ > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum > Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED > Caveats: NONE > > > ________________________________________________________________________ _______ > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org > Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" > ________________________________________________________________________ _______ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" _______________________________________________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"
