Re: [Assam] IE: India over Pope : unfair competition in conversions

Wed, 24 May 2006 18:30:28 -0700


Mukul-da and Rajen-da,
 
As was being discussed - that if political conversions than why not religious conversions. Why is this protectionistic drama - of banning conversions (or atleast laws against forced conversions)?
 
I think if the Hindus or Indian muslims (who are even poorer than Hindus) and other faiths were as rich as the Christians (all over the world) -in India and had backers providing expertise in education, management and media planning with huge funds and resources -- matching those of Christian missionaries --- then there would be perfect competition (in terms of economics). Right now there is a monopoly (by Christian missionaries) - over material resources -media and political might .   
 
Poor India or Nepal or any Middle East country or Vietnam or Laos -- is still struggling to educate and feed its people -- where can its majority religion followers gather the strength to match the Christian propaganda machinery?
 
Did God decide this inequality? Did God say to Christians that let only those study in your schools -who agree to become Christians (as is done in India legally)?
 
It is crying shame that these missionaries are using the poverty of the people - as a means of promoting their faith. I wonder how they reconcile their acts - with self less acts in the name of God.
 
On the other hand, history does not repeat itself.
 
The era where you could convert the masses through the sword is over - just as economic warfare has replaced physical warfare -as the means of gaining power over other nations (I learned this fundamental fact early in my BA Eco class). Still many religious zealots try to use physical force to convert others. Muslims are famous for it in recent history and intermittently other faiths (Hindus in Goa etc , Christians in Tripura, Nagaland etc) have come in the limelight.
 
But drawing an analogy from business competition - Free Trade is not a reality in this world. Only pockets are there - such as EU. If it was a reality - then you would find USA and Europe with a population over 3 billion --everyone would emigrate there.
 
So, why assume that the poor and defenseless faiths should be subjected to unfair -yet free competition -with super rich Christians? What safeguards should be drawn for that?
 
Umesh
 
PS: IE ; http://www.indianexpress.com/story/5116.html
 
India surveying Christians in some BJP rules states - it is logical that snce the people of these states voted a Hindutva ideologue party - there is greater chance of discrimination. However, why stop at these states - why not Orissa , Bihar , UP also. And What about Hindu survey in Tripura , Nagaland (about Christian militant atrocities) and Kashmir, Kerala (about Muslim atrocities).

mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Rajen Barua's lucid explanation of what  never happened-nor will-  forced conversion.
BJP OUGHT TO BE ASKED:
"Shrimanji Hindimey Boliye"
mm


 
From:  umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:  Rajen Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,AssamNet <[email protected]>
Subject:  Re: [Assam] India protests over Pope comments -BBC
Date:  Wed, 24 May 2006 19:56:50 +0100 (BST)

Rajen-da wrote:
  
 
  
*** And in my opinion telling people that there is God is the biggest fraud of religion.
  
 
  
I think you made your point amply clear.
  
 
  
Umesh
  


Rajen Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
    
>. Let us know how you feel about a Theocratic leader - the Pope - trying to teach India about secularism
  
 
  
I think in this case, we are giving him the scope to teach, and that is why he is trying to teach. Why we need to give that scope.
  
Religious conversion should be a freedom for
anybody - aspirin or not- period.
  
India is violating this fundamental human right.
  
 
  
Tell me this.
  
Why we allow political conversion - by bribing, cheating and false promises, and not religious freedom?.
  
If religion is a way of social life, political parties are also ways of our political life.
  
Why we allow free political conversion and not religious conversion?
  
What exactly is the difference between religion and politics.
  
Don't tell me that religion involve with God.
  
Is Hinduism is not fraud when we tell people that God created four castes?
  
Is that true?
  
  
What God has to do it?
  
And in my opinion telling people that there is God is the biggest fraud of religion.
  
 
  
>Do you think India or any country for that matter should send its ambassadors to a nation (Vatican) whose sole purpose is to promote their faith - and stop other >faiths from flourishing?
  
 
  
This is another fraud India is doing. Why in the hell India is sending an ambassador to Vatican at all? Who is telling India to send an ambassador at all?
  
India should
have the guts not to send any ambassador to Vatican. Why India not sending an ambassador to Dalai Lama's monastaery?
  
But that does not take the responsibility away from India to give freedom for free religious conversion like political conversion.  If we allow fraud in politics, we better allow fraud in religion.
  
RB
  
  
----- Original Message -----
        
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 12:35 PM
  
Subject: Re: [Assam] India protests over Pope comments -BBC
  

  
Rajen-da,
  
 
  
You always try to make politically correct statements. Let us know how you feel about a Theocratic leader - the Pope - trying to teach India about secularism.
  
 
  
Don't give us that we should take advice from anyone and everyone -as long it is good.Do you think India or any country for that matter should send its ambassadors to a nation (Vatican) whose sole purpose is to promote their faith - and stop other faiths from flourishing?
  
 
  
Umesh

Barua25 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
  
         
  
>The BJP says that it supports legislation to ban "forced religious conversions", because many Christian >missionaries recruit converts among the majority Hindu population using financial and educational enticements.
  
I fail to understand what is called a "forced religious conversion" specially by the Christians. People can be persuaded, people can be bribed, but people can be forced to convert? What is wrong in Christians giving financial and educational enticements? Why the Hindus cannot counter with better educational enticement? We discussed this before. I think this ban on "forced conversion" by the Hindus is actually a ban on any "conversion".  The Christians never forced anybody for
conversion. That we have only 2% Christians in India even though Christianity was here since 1 AD goes to prove that.  Every religion should have the freedom to convert others to his/her religion. 
  
RB
  
  
----- Original Message -----
        
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 4:32 PM
  
Subject: [Assam] India protests over Pope comments -BBC
  

  
Quite
unsure why India is surprised. The Vatican has over the centuries used force and enticements to convert people of other faiths to Catholicism. That is how the religion has been able to sustain itself.
  
 
  
The Vatican's lecture to India is both unwarranted and 'holier than thou' - which it ain't
  
--Ram
  
  
"India is a secular and democratic country, in which adherents of all religious faiths enjoy equal rights," said Junior Foreign Minister Anand Sharma.
  
 
     
 
  
India has summoned the Vatican envoy in Delhi in protest over comments by the Pope in which he condemned attempts to ban religious conversions.   
India's junior Foreign Minister, Anand Sharma, told parliament on Tuesday that the
envoy was told in "no uncertain terms" of India's disapproval.  
The Pope criticised India last week for what he called "disturbing signs of religious intolerance".  
India's main opposition party, the BJP, has already protested to the Vatican.  
  
'Religious intolerance'  
Pope Benedict XVI made the comments last week while talking to India's new Ambassador to the Vatican, Amitava Tripathi.  
           
  
Head shaving as part of religious conversion in Tamil Nadu in 2003  
Religious conversions are a controversial issue
  
The pontiff criticised India for "disturbing signs of religious intolerance which have troubled some regions of India".  
He specifically
cited attempts by some Indian states to introduce legislation to ban what right-wing Hindus call "forced conversions".  
India's foreign ministry has now reacted strongly to Monday's papal comments.  
"India is a secular and democratic country, in which adherents of all religious faiths enjoy equal rights," said Junior Foreign Minister Anand Sharma.  
Interference  
Correspondents say that Mr Sharma made the comments in response to opposition criticism that India had not protested against the "grossly unwarranted" statement from Rome.  
  
Rajnath Singh, the President of India's main opposition Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) wrote to the Pope on 20 May.  
"My interference in your religious domain within the Vatican will be unwelcome, uncalled for and will be treated as interference in your religious management and administration," the letter said.  
Earlier this month, the state governor of India's western state of Rajasthan
refused to sign a contentious religious freedom bill, which would have banned people from being converted to religions "against their will".  
Human rights agencies and minority groups also opposed the bill, saying it was introduced to appease radical Hindu groups.  
But the BJP-led Rajasthan government, led by the BJP, said that the bill had been introduced to stop religious conversion by means of allurement, greed or pressure.  
The BJP says that it supports legislation to ban "forced religious conversions", because many Christian missionaries recruit converts among the majority Hindu population using financial and educational enticements.  
Christians make up just over two percent of India's 1.1 billion mainly Hindu population.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
    
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Umesh Sharma
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1-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

weblog: http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/  
  
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Umesh Sharma
5121 Lackawanna ST
College Park, MD 20740

1-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

weblog: http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/
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Umesh Sharma
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College Park, MD 20740

1-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

weblog: http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/

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