*** First off, WHAT does that have to do with HOW ordinary, meek
Oxomiyas turned into
INSURGENTS ? Where was India's democracy then? Or even now?
Or for that matter of other Indians turning into NAXALITES? Were
they born that way? Spoilt
brats of rich people turning into violence as a hobby perhaps?
Where were the courts with habeas corpus or what have you to
listen to their grievances or
giving them a hand in their struggles to survive?
*** Secondly, is it not patently disingenuous to expect a band of
rag-tag guerillas, being hounded
by the world's second largest standing army, to provide uniform
justice ; while the same folks bear mute witness to their supposedly
legitimate GOVT's wanton disregard for its own laws, tacitly, if not
overtly accept such abominations as AFSPA as something inevitable or
even desirable; while never missing a chance to wave to the world
how civilized their 'democracy' is?
*** Thirdly, these insurgents do no go seeking JUSTICE from India. If
they had ANY faith in it, they would not go take up arms against it,
knowing full well that they are courting death, as the hundreds of
thousands of Nagas, Mizos, Bodos, Oxomiyas, and Manipuris' killings
would amply illustrate.
But what about those who spout 'democratic values', do THEY care? Do
they seek it? Have they ever lifted a finger demanding reforms,
demanding changes to what have spawned the numerous insurgencies and
Maoist rebellions? What do THEY have to show for?
When trouble began, had Indian intelligentsia demanded action of
their govts., put the offenders on trial, let the issues come into
full public view about who did what and why, that would have gone a
long way towards stemming the proliferation of violence. Does Indian
intelligentsia even KNOW of what has been going on in our nook of the
world for this past half century and more, much less raise their
voices in support of ordinary justice?
Knowing we cannot dwell on the past, is it reasonable to expect at
least NOW some action?
Does the intelligentsia , the pillars of society, have the
wherewithal to put their money where their mouths are? Will they ask
the hard questions they need to, of those who are in power? And
demand the changes that are direly needed?
Do they have the courage to do that?
Can those, who are quick to join the "hola gosot baagi kuthar moraa
mohabeers" and chase the ULFA dispatcher like a bunch of barking
mongrels or go applauding from the sidelines ask hard questions of a
minister who controls the purse strings of where they feed from?
Think about that?
At 10:52 AM +0100 10/5/07, uttam borthakur wrote:
What about Naxalite movements in various parts of India? It has been
said that those groups hold sway over a big chunk of India.
Moreover, I fail to understand one thing. The INSURGENTS calling for
secession and being at WAR with India can avail of procedures like
habeas corpus through Indian Courts. Unfortunately, the same cannot
be said of their courts where we come to know about death penalty
etc. after those are carried out. Why do they seek justice under
Indian constitution when they do not conform to it? I do not say
they should not, but I find a dichotomy:-).
Mridul Bhuyan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"What you miss Ram is that INSURGENTS are PEOPLE, who are driven to
armed uprising, in the pursuit of POLITICAL RIGHTS, which they are
deprived of.
In a real, functioning democracy, run by people who BELIEVE in it,
not merely wave as a facade at those whose approval they so seek,
there would have been ways to find a peaceful solution to such
disaffections.
That India has remained buried in its effort to squelch these
voices militarily for over half a century, annihilating hundreds of
thousands of what it calls their very OWN people , and now with
connivance of a brutal military dictatorship in Burma, points to
its fake commitments to real democratic values and its
intelligentsia's cluelessness and absence from its governance."
I wholeheartedly support the underlined statement. We all should
understand that they are our brothers and sisters. Even if they have
committed some mistakes, the onus is on us to advise them to amend
their ways and try to find a suitable solution agrreable to all
(even if it is a arduous task). Admit it or not, GoI did never give
a damn about what happens to the people of Assam and will never do
that in future too.
Mridul Bhuyan
Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
What you miss Ram is that INSURGENTS are PEOPLE, who are driven to
armed uprising, in the pursuit of POLITICAL RIGHTS, which they are
deprived of.
In a real, functioning democracy, run by people who BELIEVE in it,
not merely wave as a facade at those whose approval they so seek,
there would have been ways to find a peaceful solution to such
disaffections.
That India has remained buried in its effort to squelch these
voices militarily for over half a century, annihilating hundreds of
thousands of what it calls their very OWN people , and now with
connivance of a brutal military dictatorship in Burma, points to
its fake commitments to real democratic values and its
intelligentsia's cluelessness and absence from its governance.
At 10:07 AM -0600 10/4/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>**** Ahhhh! The use of language to deny the humanity of
'insurgents' , as if
>they are NOT people. Not Nagas, not >Shans, not Manipuris,
>not Oxomiyas---they are just INSURGENTS and so fair game.
C'da,
I doubt if any sane government will just allow insurgents to do what
they please - hole up in neighboring countries and blow up their
citizens. To that end, India is frequently reminded of the
"humanity" that insurgents frequently dole out to Indian citizens in
Assam, Manipur etc.
You tout the 'just cause' on behalf of insurgents, of their
sacrifices, their aspirations etc.
Fair enough. Similarly, India and Indians also think that their
cause is just, and that the Indian democracy (at least thats what
they think - even if you disagree) is being hijacked, its citizens
killed, and insurgents are causing a reign of terror among common
citizens in Assam
That is why, whatever the causes/aspirations are, in the end, peace
is what both sides need to aspire for.
If "peace" is not on the table nothing else matters.
--Ram
10/4/07, Chan Mahanta
<<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>He is upset that the GOI would reach across the border to seek the
help of Burma/Bhutan with the >insurgency problem.
**** Ahhhh! The use of language to deny the humanity of 'insurgents'
, as if they are NOT people. Not Nagas, not Shans, not Manipuris,
not Oxomiyas---they are just INSURGENTS and so fair game.
That is what desi-demokray obviously stands for and is defended so
staunchly, uncritically by its devotees. And my pointing it out
causes the discomfiture it does.
Again, small wonder why desi-demokrasy's quality remains in the
dismal condition it does, and gets worse by the day.
At 8:50 AM -0600 10/4/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>This is probably the reason why Sri Ram Sarangapani did not
understand the dig if any.
Oh!. I understood the dig alright (I've known C'da for many years now:)).
But what he fails to undersatand is that the GOI may on the one hand
seek help from the military Junta with a couple of goals in mind
( (a) to flush insurgents and (b) to curtail drug trafficking into
India from Burma ) and on the other hand condemn the Burmese Govt.
for its attrocities on the monks.
Is this hypocritical on the part of the GOI? Obviously, the GOI does
not think the peaceful protesting monks are the same as militant
insurgents.
And I understand this has struck a 'raw nerve' in C'da. He is upset
that the GOI would reach across the border to seek the help of
Burma/Bhutan with the insurgency problem.
--Ram
On 10/4/07, uttam borthakur
<<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
People of India may demand that its Govt should exert its influence
over the Myanmar Junta so that it does not resort to repression. Are
the people of India and its government the same thing? I am amazed
at the naivete. This is probably the reason why Sri Ram Sarangapani
did not understand the dig if any.
Chan Mahanta <<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Heh-heh!
**** That was one heck of a JUMPING to CONCLUSIONS you undertook Ram.
Did *I* suggest or even IMPLY that India ought to have cut-off
diplomatic relations?
What I was pointing to was a far more HYPOCRITICAL stance:
Government of India has decided to provide all assistance to
Myanmar Army, as the neighbouring country was willing to help
India. Significantly, Defence Secretary Shekhar Dutta had last
month paid a quiet visit to Myanmar to discuss the demand for
weapons. He briefed the meeting about the outcome of his visit.
**** But I understand why my post struck that raw nerve again :-).
>Yes, India is a democracy,
**** Yes indeed, desi-demokratic that is, where ordinary meanings of
these terms like democracy, secularism and the like do not apply.
> and it has known of Burma's dictatorship for decades. It has also
known of the Ayotollas in Tehran, the >commies in China, and of
Fidel in Cuba. What about Pakistan, where, one would think, most
would >love India wiped out. And what about Bangladesh, which is not
very India friendly?
**** The difference you avoided acknowledging and addressing, again,
lies with:
Government of India has decided to provide all assistance to
Myanmar Army, as the neighbouring country was willing to help
India. Significantly, Defence Secretary Shekhar Dutta had last
month paid a quiet visit to Myanmar to discuss the demand for
weapons. He briefed the meeting about the outcome of his visit.
> "if you are not with us, then you must be against us"
*** Nice try!
c-da
At 7:48 AM -0600 10/4/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>****What leaves me curious about is if GoI was aware of Burma's
military >dictatorship's activities spanning decades, as relates to
its people's democratic >aspirations, and how it fit with India's
own dedication to democracy?
C'da, just couldn't resist. Yes, India is a democracy, and it has
known of Burma's dictatorship for decades. It has also known of
the Ayotollas in Tehran, the commies in China, and of Fidel in Cuba.
What about Pakistan, where, one would think, most would love India
wiped out. And what about Bangladesh, which is not very India
friendly?
Do you suggest that India severe all ties with such countries? After
all, there are people in all these countries seeking democratic
aspirations .
The US and every other democratic country have always had
relationships (at least tolerated) with countries that really do not
hold the same values. What about the US and Venezuela? Should the US
severe that relationship, because there too millions seek democratic
aspirations.?
Like, every other democratic country, India is no different. It can,
and should, maintain relationships with other countries (even the
not friendly ones or those run by dictators) at different levels.
I am surprised, you seem to be saying "if you are not with us, then
you must be against us" :)
--Ram
On 10/4/07, Chan Mahanta
<<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Greetings Goswami. It is heartwarming to see Kharkhowa xangbadik
xokolor utkontha ( Assamese journalist's concerns) about the
Burmese people's struggles for democratic rights.
And my Kharkhowa heart glows with pride with the powerful stance
you all took in support of democratic values by urging ----
">---- the Government of India to create diplomatic pressure on the
Burmese junta to refrain from >repressive measures against those
carrying on the democracy movement in the country."
That ought to leave no doubt on how committed you all are to
democratic values.
More so in view of the following that appeared in your paper, the
AT, obviously with a sense of relish
( note the highlighted parts) some months back:
<<http://www.assamtribune.com/>http://www.assamtribune.com/ ><http://www.assamtribune.com/>
http://www.assamtribune.com/ 6 October 2006
From Our Spl Correspondent
NEW DELHI, Oct 5 - Notwithstanding the setback in the ULFA peace
process, the Centre is unwilling to write off the peace process and
has held out fresh hope by indicating that it was still willing to
stop Army operations, if the outfit responded positively. The
Centre' latest gambit came from National Security Adviser, MK
Narayanan, who told newsmen here today that he was willing to call
off the Army operations, if ULFA comes for talks.
The NSA was responding to news reports, which quoted ULFA's
mouthpiece Freedom as having said that the outfit was still open to
finding a 'political solution' to the insurgency in Asom.
Replying to a query, he said that he was unaware about ULFA's
statement. "But, if it is true then it is most welcome. I will stop
operation if they come," he added.
The NSA had come to the Ministry of Home Affairs to take a meeting
on the internal security.
In the latest issue of its mouthpiece, the ULFA said it was, "still
hopeful of a political solution and it would respond to any such
efforts initiated by the Centre through the PCG". The mouthpiece
said it was confident that the PCG would work for bringing about a
"political solution".
ULFA's latest threat to target Congressmen in the State, as well as
the sudden end to the peace process has the Centre thinking. The UPA
Government at the Centre, which was hoping for a breakthrough, is
upset at the breakdown of the peace process. Politically, the UPA
may not find much support among its allies, with the CPI-M already
stating it wanted the peace process to continue.
The reluctance on part of ULFA to commit in writing, unabated
extortions and growing belligerence of the outfit coupled with stern
warning from Army and intelligence agencies forced the Centre to
call off the suspension of operation on September 24. Subsequently,
the PCG also pulled out of the peace process.
The development may be significant, because it comes at a time when
the Centre is bracing up to intensify operations against ULFA and by
all indications, a coordinated operation with Myanmar Army may be in
the offing.
Last evening, as reported today, a high level meeting chaired by
Cabinet Secretary, BK Chaturvedi and attended by top brass of the
three services, intelligence officials, was held at South Block to
take stock of the internal security situation including Army
operations in Asom.
Government of India has decided to provide all assistance to Myanmar
Army, as the neighbouring country was willing to help India.
Significantly, Defence Secretary Shekhar Dutta had last month paid a
quiet visit to Myanmar to discuss the demand for weapons. He briefed
the meeting about the outcome of his visit.
****What leaves me curious about is if GoI was aware of Burma's
military dictatorship's activities spanning decades, as relates to
its people's democratic aspirations, and how it fit with India's own
dedication to democracy? And the ATs too?
Any ideas?
Best.
cm
At 1:29 PM +0100 10/4/07, ranenkumar goswami wrote:
Newsmen's support to Burmese cause
Guwahati, October 4: The Journalists' Forum, Assam on
Thursday urged the Government of India to create
diplomatic pressure on the Burmese junta to refrain
from repressive measures against those carrying on the
democracy movement in the country.
In a meeting at the Guwahati Press Club with JFA
president Rupam Baruah in chair, the newsmen's body
asked the Union Government not to remain silent on the
happenings in the neighbouring country and do the
needful within its powers to facilitate a peaceful
transition to democracy.
Extending its whole-hearted support to the
movement, the Forum demanded that Aung San Suu Kyi,
the globally recognized pro-democracy leader, be
immediately released from the prolonged detention she
is being made to undergo. It deplored the brutal
killing of protesting citizens including one foreign
journalist.
The meeting expressed its solidarity with the
proposed Global Action Day for Free Burma to be
observed on October 6.
The meeting was addressed among others by Dr
Amalendu Guha, Hemanta Barman, Dr Abdul Mannan,
Nilamoni Sen Deka, Hiten Mahanta, Nava Thakuria,
Jayanta Gogoi, Jawaharlal Saha and Satish Tahbildar.
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