>What you miss Ram is that INSURGENTS are PEOPLE, who are driven to armed uprising, in the pursuit of POLITICAL RIGHTS, which they are >deprived of
C'da, And what you might be missing is that those killed by insurgents, are people too. Where is the humanity that we seem to all wear on our sleeves and preach all the time? These people were also fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters and children. Were the Biharis expendable or were the children of Dhemaji cannon fodder? The other day, you raised the question whether Sanjoy Ghosh's life was more valuable than the thousands of insurgents killed? Well, all life is precious - but more precious ones are the innocent ones and innocent here means the countless, everyday common soft-target people milling around, going about their own business. Ghosh is a classic example of someone who was doing what very few people are willing to do - helping the poor and needy in Assam. And of course, who really cares about him? He is gone... good riddance. right? >That India has remained buried in its effort to squelch these voices militarily for over half a century, >annihilating hundreds of thousands of what it >calls their very OWN people C'da, how would you want the GOI to react when some of its people take to murder and mayhem of innocent people? Treat them with kid gloves? Yes, insurgents also need to be treated fairly and with decency. But that ought to be extended the other way too. --Ram . On 10/4/07, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > What you miss Ram is that INSURGENTS are PEOPLE, who are driven to armed > uprising, in the pursuit of POLITICAL RIGHTS, which they are deprived of. > > > In a real, functioning democracy, run by people who BELIEVE in it, not > merely wave as a facade at those whose approval they so seek, there would > have been ways to find a peaceful solution to such disaffections. > > > That India has remained buried in its effort to squelch these voices > militarily for over half a century, annihilating hundreds of thousands of > what it calls their very OWN people , and now with connivance of a brutal > military dictatorship in Burma, points to its fake commitments to real > democratic values and its intelligentsia's cluelessness and absence from its > governance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 10:07 AM -0600 10/4/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > >**** Ahhhh! The use of language to deny the humanity of 'insurgents' , as > if > > >they are NOT people. Not Nagas, not >Shans, not Manipuris, > > >not Oxomiyas---they are just INSURGENTS and so fair game. > > > > C'da, > > > > I doubt if any sane government will just allow insurgents to do what they > please - hole up in neighboring countries and blow up their citizens. To > that end, India is frequently reminded of the "humanity" that insurgents > frequently dole out to Indian citizens in Assam, Manipur etc. > > > > You tout the 'just cause' on behalf of insurgents, of their sacrifices, > their aspirations etc. > > Fair enough. Similarly, India and Indians also think that their cause is > just, and that the Indian democracy (at least thats what they think - even > if you disagree) is being hijacked, its citizens killed, and insurgents are > causing a reign of terror among common citizens in Assam > > > > That is why, whatever the causes/aspirations are, in the end, peace is > what both sides need to aspire for. > > If "peace" is not on the table nothing else matters. > > > > --Ram > > > > > > 10/4/07,* Chan Mahanta* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >He is upset that the GOI would reach across the border to seek the help > of Burma/Bhutan with the >insurgency problem. > > > > > > > > > > > **** Ahhhh! The use of language to deny the humanity of 'insurgents' , as > if they are NOT people. Not Nagas, not Shans, not Manipuris, not > Oxomiyas---they are just INSURGENTS and so fair game. > > > > > > > > > > > That is what desi-demokray obviously stands for and is defended so > staunchly, uncritically by its devotees. And my pointing it out causes the > discomfiture it does. > > > > > Again, small wonder why desi-demokrasy's quality remains in the dismal > condition it does, and gets worse by the day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 8:50 AM -0600 10/4/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > >This is probably the reason why Sri Ram Sarangapani did not understand > the dig if any. > > > > Oh!. I understood the dig alright (I've known C'da for many years now:)). > > > > But what he fails to undersatand is that the GOI may on the one hand seek > help from the military Junta with a couple of goals in mind ( (a) to flush > insurgents and (b) to curtail drug trafficking into India from Burma ) and > on the other hand condemn the Burmese Govt. for its attrocities on the > monks. > > > > Is this hypocritical on the part of the GOI? Obviously, the GOI does not > think the peaceful protesting monks are the same as militant insurgents. > > > > And I understand this has struck a 'raw nerve' in C'da. He is upset that > the GOI would reach across the border to seek the help of Burma/Bhutan with > the insurgency problem. > > > > --Ram > > > > On 10/4/07,* uttam borthakur* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > People of India may demand that its Govt should exert its influence over > the Myanmar Junta so that it does not resort to repression. Are the people > of India and its government the same thing? I am amazed at the naivete. This > is probably the reason why Sri Ram Sarangapani did not understand the dig if > any. > > > > *Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>*>* wrote: > > > Heh-heh! > > > > > **** That was one heck of a JUMPING to CONCLUSIONS you undertook Ram. > > > > > Did *I* suggest or even IMPLY that India ought to have cut-off diplomatic > relations? > > > > > > > > What I was pointing to was a far more HYPOCRITICAL stance: > > > > > *Government of India has decided to provide all assistance to Myanmar > Army, as the neighbouring country was willing to help India. > Significantly,Defence Secretary Shekhar Dutta had last month paid a quiet > visit to Myanmar > to discuss the demand for weapons. He briefed the meeting about the > outcome of his visit.* > > > > > > > > **** But I understand why my post struck that raw nerve again :-). > > > > > > > > >Yes, India is a democracy, > > > > > **** Yes indeed, desi-demokratic that is, where ordinary meanings of these > terms like democracy, secularism and the like do not apply. > > > > > > > > > and it has known of Burma's dictatorship for decades. It has also known > of the Ayotollas in Tehran, the >commies in China, and of Fidel in Cuba. > What about Pakistan, where, one would think, most would >love India wiped > out. And what about Bangladesh, which is not very India friendly? > > > > > > > > **** The difference you avoided acknowledging and addressing, again, lies > with: > > > > > > > > *Government of India has decided to provide all assistance to Myanmar > Army, as the neighbouring country was willing to help India. > Significantly,Defence Secretary Shekhar Dutta had last month paid a quiet > visit to Myanmar > to discuss the demand for weapons. He briefed the meeting about the > outcome of his visit.* > > > > > > > > > > > > "if you are not with us, then you must be against us" > > > > > *** Nice try! > > > > > > > > > > > c-da > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 7:48 AM -0600 10/4/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > >****What leaves me curious about is if GoI was aware of Burma's military > >dictatorship's activities spanning decades, as relates to its people's > democratic >aspirations, and how it fit with India's own dedication to > democracy? > > > > C'da, just couldn't resist. Yes, India is a democracy, and it has known of > Burma's dictatorship for decades. It has also known of the Ayotollas in > Tehran, the commies in China, and of Fidel in Cuba. What about Pakistan, > where, one would think, most would love India wiped out. And what about > Bangladesh, which is not very India friendly? > > > > > Do you suggest that India severe all ties with such countries? After all, > there are people in all these countries seeking democratic aspirations . > > > > The US and every other democratic country have always had relationships > (at least tolerated) with countries that really do not hold the same values. > What about the US and Venezuela? Should the US severe that relationship, > because there too millions seek democratic aspirations.? > > > > Like, every other democratic country, India is no different. It can, and > should, maintain relationships with other countries (even the not friendly > ones or those run by dictators) at different levels. > > I am surprised, you seem to be saying "if you are not with us, then you > must be against us" :) > > > > --Ram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/4/07,* Chan Mahanta* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Greetings Goswami. It is heartwarming to see Kharkhowa xangbadik xokolor > utkontha ( Assamese journalist's concerns) about the Burmese people's > struggles for democratic rights. > > > > > > > > And my Kharkhowa heart glows with pride with the powerful stance you all > took in support of democratic values by urging ---- > > > > > ">---- the Government of India to create diplomatic pressure on the > Burmese junta to refrain from >repressive measures against those carrying on > the democracy movement in the country." > > > > > That ought to leave no doubt on how committed you all are to democratic > values. > > > > > > > > More so in view of the following that appeared in your paper, the AT, > obviously with a sense of relish > > ( note the highlighted parts) some months back: > > > > > > > > > *<**http://www.assamtribune.com/* <http://www.assamtribune.com/>* > >**http://www.assamtribune.com/ > * <http://www.assamtribune.com/>* 6 October 2006* > > *From Our Spl Correspondent > NEW DELHI, Oct 5 - Notwithstanding the setback in the ULFA peace process, > the Centre is unwilling to write off the peace process and has held out > fresh hope by indicating that it was still willing to stop Army operations, > if the outfit responded positively. The Centre' latest gambit came from > National Security Adviser, MK Narayanan, who told newsmen here today that he > was willing to call off the Army operations, if ULFA comes for talks.* > > * > The NSA was responding to news reports, which quoted ULFA's mouthpiece > Freedom as having said that the outfit was still open to finding a > 'political solution' to the insurgency in Asom. > > Replying to a query, he said that he was unaware about ULFA's statement. > "But, if it is true then it is most welcome. I will stop operation if they > come," he added. > > The NSA had come to the Ministry of Home Affairs to take a meeting on the > internal security. > > In the latest issue of its mouthpiece, the ULFA said it was, "still > hopeful of a political solution and it would respond to any such efforts > initiated by the Centre through the PCG". The mouthpiece said it was > confident that the PCG would work for bringing about a "political solution". > > ULFA's latest threat to target Congressmen in the State, as well as the > sudden end to the peace process has the Centre thinking. The UPA Government > at the Centre, which was hoping for a breakthrough, is upset at the > breakdown of the peace process. Politically, the UPA may not find much > support among its allies, with the CPI-M already stating it wanted the peace > process to continue. > > The reluctance on part of ULFA to commit in writing, unabated extortions > and growing belligerence of the outfit coupled with stern warning from Army > and intelligence agencies forced the Centre to call off the suspension of > operation on September 24. Subsequently, the PCG also pulled out of the > peace process.* > > *The development may be significant, because it comes at a time when the > Centre is bracing up to intensify operations against ULFA and by all > indications, a coordinated operation with Myanmar Army may be in the > offing. > > Last evening, as reported today, a high level meeting chaired by Cabinet > Secretary, BK Chaturvedi and attended by top brass of the three services, > intelligence officials, was held at South Block to take stock of the > internal security situation including Army operations in Asom.* > > > *Government of India has decided to provide all assistance to Myanmar > Army, as the neighbouring country was willing to help India. > Significantly,Defence Secretary Shekhar Dutta had last month paid a quiet > visit to Myanmar > to discuss the demand for weapons. He briefed the meeting about the > outcome of his visit.* > > * > * > > * > * > > > > > > > > ****What leaves me curious about is if GoI was aware of Burma's military > dictatorship's activities spanning decades, as relates to its people's > democratic aspirations, and how it fit with India's own dedication to > democracy? And the ATs too? > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > Best. > > > > > cm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 1:29 PM +0100 10/4/07, ranenkumar goswami wrote: > > Newsmen's support to Burmese cause > > Guwahati, October 4: The Journalists' Forum, Assam on > > Thursday urged the Government of India to create > diplomatic pressure on the Burmese junta to refrain > from repressive measures against those carrying on the > > democracy movement in the country. > In a meeting at the Guwahati Press Club with JFA > president Rupam Baruah in chair, the newsmen's body > asked the Union Government not to remain silent on the > happenings in the neighbouring country and do the > needful within its powers to facilitate a peaceful > transition to democracy. > Extending its whole-hearted support to the > movement, the Forum demanded that Aung San Suu Kyi, > the globally recognized pro-democracy leader, be > immediately released from the prolonged detention she > is being made to undergo. It deplored the brutal > killing of protesting citizens including one foreign > journalist. > The meeting expressed its solidarity with the > proposed Global Action Day for Free Burma to be > observed on October 6. > The meeting was addressed among others by Dr > > Amalendu Guha, Hemanta Barman, Dr Abdul Mannan, > Nilamoni Sen Deka, Hiten Mahanta, Nava Thakuria, > Jayanta Gogoi, Jawaharlal Saha and Satish Tahbildar. > > > > > Download prohibited? No problem. CHAT from any browser, without > download. Go to http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php/ > > _______________________________________________ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > > > *Uttam Kumar Borthakur* > > ------------------------------ > > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. 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