C'da: I regret to say that Assamnet has become a brickbatting ground. You on one side with complete animosity for India and the Government where you grew up and became a somebody in your own rights. And the others who automatically become half witts for putting forward their best foot and their best voice.
You claim that you have left India way back in the 60's and yet you seem to know more about the intentions of GOI, the GOA, the intentions of the ULFA. I must say that this is pretty impressive. I really do not see in what way India would be committing a wrongful act in supporting the Burmese people. Mohan R. Palleti > Ram: > > One of the MOST fundamental norms of a CIVILIZED, democratic society > is that you don't go shoot up your people who are demonstrating or > are holding a civil protest, EVEN if it gets unruly. > > You arrest them for breaking laws, if that is what it is, then give > them a fair trial, punish if proven guilty or forever hold your peace. > > Tell us, show us, HOW many 'insurgents', starting from the Naga > rebellions, to the Mizois, to the ULFA and all the others, across > India, were give a fair trial, and imprisoned if warranted, or set > free? > > And compare that to all the hundreds and thousands that India shoots > up every year in the name of keeping the peace, or kill in cold blood > in FAKE encounters, or simply throw in prison year after year without > trials. > > Before insurgency took place, it started as mass civilian protests in > Assam, but soon escalated when the > army was brought in to shoot protesters. > > > How many were given a trial in a court of law Ram? Then, or now ? > > And THAT is your desi-demokrasy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 10:58 AM -0600 10/4/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> >What you miss Ram is that INSURGENTS are PEOPLE, who are driven to >>armed uprising, in the pursuit of POLITICAL RIGHTS, which they >>are >deprived of >> >>C'da, >> >>And what you might be missing is that those killed by insurgents, >>are people too. >>Where is the humanity that we seem to all wear on our sleeves and >>preach all the time? These people were also fathers, >>mothers, brothers, sisters and children. Were the Biharis expendable >>or were the children of Dhemaji >>cannon fodder? >> >>The other day, you raised the question whether Sanjoy Ghosh's life >>was more valuable than the thousands of insurgents killed? >>Well, all life is precious - but more precious ones are the innocent >>ones and innocent here means the countless, everyday common >>soft-target people milling around, going about their own business. >>Ghosh is a classic example of someone who was doing what very few >>people are willing to do - helping the poor and needy in Assam. And >>of course, who really cares about him? He is gone... good riddance. >>right? >> >> >That India has remained buried in its effort to squelch these >>voices militarily for over half a century, >> >annihilating hundreds of thousands of what it >calls their very OWN >> people >> >>C'da, how would you want the GOI to react when some of its people >>take to murder and >>mayhem of innocent people? Treat them with kid gloves? >> >>Yes, insurgents also need to be treated fairly and with decency. But >>that ought to be extended the other way too. >> >>--Ram >> >> >>. >> >> >> >> >> >>On 10/4/07, Chan Mahanta >><<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>What you miss Ram is that INSURGENTS are PEOPLE, who are driven to >>armed uprising, in the pursuit of POLITICAL RIGHTS, which they are >>deprived of. >> >> >>In a real, functioning democracy, run by people who BELIEVE in it, >>not merely wave as a facade at those whose approval they so seek, >>there would have been ways to find a peaceful solution to such >>disaffections. >> >> >>That India has remained buried in its effort to squelch these >>voices militarily for over half a century, annihilating hundreds of >>thousands of what it calls their very OWN people , and now with >>connivance of a brutal military dictatorship in Burma, points to >>its fake commitments to real democratic values and its >>intelligentsia's cluelessness and absence from its governance. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>At 10:07 AM -0600 10/4/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> >>> >**** Ahhhh! The use of language to deny the humanity of >>>'insurgents' , as if >>> >> >they are NOT people. Not Nagas, not >Shans, not Manipuris, >> >> >not Oxomiyas---they are just INSURGENTS and so fair game. >> >> >> >>C'da, >> >> >> >>I doubt if any sane government will just allow insurgents to do what >>they please - hole up in neighboring countries and blow up their >>citizens. To that end, India is frequently reminded of the >>"humanity" that insurgents frequently dole out to Indian citizens in >>Assam, Manipur etc. >> >> >> >>You tout the 'just cause' on behalf of insurgents, of their >>sacrifices, their aspirations etc. >> >>Fair enough. Similarly, India and Indians also think that their >>cause is just, and that the Indian democracy (at least thats what >>they think - even if you disagree) is being hijacked, its citizens >>killed, and insurgents are causing a reign of terror among common >>citizens in Assam >> >> >> >>That is why, whatever the causes/aspirations are, in the end, peace >>is what both sides need to aspire for. >> >>If "peace" is not on the table nothing else matters. >> >> >> >>--Ram >> >> >> >> >> >>10/4/07, Chan Mahanta >><<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >He is upset that the GOI would reach across the border to seek the >>help of Burma/Bhutan with the >insurgency problem. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>**** Ahhhh! The use of language to deny the humanity of 'insurgents' >>, as if they are NOT people. Not Nagas, not Shans, not Manipuris, >>not Oxomiyas---they are just INSURGENTS and so fair game. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>That is what desi-demokray obviously stands for and is defended so >>staunchly, uncritically by its devotees. And my pointing it out >>causes the discomfiture it does. >> >> >> >> >>Again, small wonder why desi-demokrasy's quality remains in the >>dismal condition it does, and gets worse by the day. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>At 8:50 AM -0600 10/4/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> >>> >This is probably the reason why Sri Ram Sarangapani did not >>>understand the dig if any. >>> >> >> >>Oh!. I understood the dig alright (I've known C'da for many years now:)). >> >> >> >>But what he fails to undersatand is that the GOI may on the one hand >>seek help from the military Junta with a couple of goals in mind >>( (a) to flush insurgents and (b) to curtail drug trafficking into >>India from Burma ) and on the other hand condemn the Burmese Govt. >>for its attrocities on the monks. >> >> >> >>Is this hypocritical on the part of the GOI? Obviously, the GOI does >>not think the peaceful protesting monks are the same as militant >>insurgents. >> >> >> >>And I understand this has struck a 'raw nerve' in C'da. He is upset >>that the GOI would reach across the border to seek the help of >>Burma/Bhutan with the insurgency problem. >> >> >> >>--Ram >> >> >> >>On 10/4/07, uttam borthakur >><<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>wrote: >> >>People of India may demand that its Govt should exert its influence >>over the Myanmar Junta so that it does not resort to repression. Are >>the people of India and its government the same thing? I am amazed >>at the naivete. This is probably the reason why Sri Ram Sarangapani >>did not understand the dig if any. >> >> >> >>Chan Mahanta <<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >>Heh-heh! >> >> >> >> >>**** That was one heck of a JUMPING to CONCLUSIONS you undertook Ram. >> >> >> >> >>Did *I* suggest or even IMPLY that India ought to have cut-off >>diplomatic relations? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>What I was pointing to was a far more HYPOCRITICAL stance: >> >> >> >> >>>Government of India has decided to provide all assistance to >>>Myanmar Army, as the neighbouring country was willing to help >>>India. Significantly, Defence Secretary Shekhar Dutta had last >>>month paid a quiet visit to Myanmar to discuss the demand for >>>weapons. He briefed the meeting about the outcome of his visit. >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>**** But I understand why my post struck that raw nerve again :-). >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Yes, India is a democracy, >> >> >> >> >>**** Yes indeed, desi-demokratic that is, where ordinary meanings of >>these terms like democracy, secularism and the like do not apply. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > and it has known of Burma's dictatorship for decades. It has also >>known of the Ayotollas in Tehran, the >commies in China, and of >>Fidel in Cuba. What about Pakistan, where, one would think, most >>would >love India wiped out. And what about Bangladesh, which is not >>very India friendly? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>**** The difference you avoided acknowledging and addressing, again, >>lies with: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>Government of India has decided to provide all assistance to >>>Myanmar Army, as the neighbouring country was willing to help >>>India. Significantly, Defence Secretary Shekhar Dutta had last >>>month paid a quiet visit to Myanmar to discuss the demand for >>>weapons. He briefed the meeting about the outcome of his visit. >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > "if you are not with us, then you must be against us" >> >> >> >> >>*** Nice try! >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>c-da >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>At 7:48 AM -0600 10/4/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> >>> >****What leaves me curious about is if GoI was aware of Burma's >>>military >dictatorship's activities spanning decades, as relates to >>>its people's democratic >aspirations, and how it fit with India's >>>own dedication to democracy? >>> >> >> >>C'da, just couldn't resist. Yes, India is a democracy, and it has >>known of Burma's dictatorship for decades. It has also known of >>the Ayotollas in Tehran, the commies in China, and of Fidel in Cuba. >>What about Pakistan, where, one would think, most would love India >>wiped out. And what about Bangladesh, which is not very India >>friendly? >> >> >> >> >>Do you suggest that India severe all ties with such countries? After >>all, there are people in all these countries seeking democratic >>aspirations . >> >> >> >>The US and every other democratic country have always had >>relationships (at least tolerated) with countries that really do not >>hold the same values. What about the US and Venezuela? Should the US >>severe that relationship, because there too millions seek democratic >>aspirations.? >> >> >> >>Like, every other democratic country, India is no different. It can, >>and should, maintain relationships with other countries (even the >>not friendly ones or those run by dictators) at different levels. >> >>I am surprised, you seem to be saying "if you are not with us, then >>you must be against us" :) >> >> >> >>--Ram >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>On 10/4/07, Chan Mahanta >><<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>Greetings Goswami. It is heartwarming to see Kharkhowa xangbadik >>xokolor utkontha ( Assamese journalist's concerns) about the >>Burmese people's struggles for democratic rights. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>And my Kharkhowa heart glows with pride with the powerful stance >>you all took in support of democratic values by urging ---- >> >> >> >> >>">---- the Government of India to create diplomatic pressure on the >>Burmese junta to refrain from >repressive measures against those >>carrying on the democracy movement in the country." >> >> >> >> >>That ought to leave no doubt on how committed you all are to >>democratic values. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>More so in view of the following that appeared in your paper, the >>AT, obviously with a sense of relish >> >>( note the highlighted parts) some months back: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >><<http://www.assamtribune.com/>http://www.assamtribune.com/ >> ><http://www.assamtribune.com/> >>http://www.assamtribune.com/ 6 October 2006 >> >>From Our Spl Correspondent >> NEW DELHI, Oct 5 - Notwithstanding the setback in the ULFA peace >>process, the Centre is unwilling to write off the peace process and >>has held out fresh hope by indicating that it was still willing to >>stop Army operations, if the outfit responded positively. The >>Centre' latest gambit came from National Security Adviser, MK >>Narayanan, who told newsmen here today that he was willing to call >>off the Army operations, if ULFA comes for talks. >> >> >>The NSA was responding to news reports, which quoted ULFA's >>mouthpiece Freedom as having said that the outfit was still open to >>finding a 'political solution' to the insurgency in Asom. >> >>Replying to a query, he said that he was unaware about ULFA's >>statement. "But, if it is true then it is most welcome. I will stop >>operation if they come," he added. >> >>The NSA had come to the Ministry of Home Affairs to take a meeting >>on the internal security. >> >>In the latest issue of its mouthpiece, the ULFA said it was, "still >>hopeful of a political solution and it would respond to any such >>efforts initiated by the Centre through the PCG". The mouthpiece >>said it was confident that the PCG would work for bringing about a >>"political solution". >> >>ULFA's latest threat to target Congressmen in the State, as well as >>the sudden end to the peace process has the Centre thinking. The UPA >>Government at the Centre, which was hoping for a breakthrough, is >>upset at the breakdown of the peace process. Politically, the UPA >>may not find much support among its allies, with the CPI-M already >>stating it wanted the peace process to continue. >> >>The reluctance on part of ULFA to commit in writing, unabated >>extortions and growing belligerence of the outfit coupled with stern >>warning from Army and intelligence agencies forced the Centre to >>call off the suspension of operation on September 24. Subsequently, >>the PCG also pulled out of the peace process. >> >>The development may be significant, because it comes at a time when >>the Centre is bracing up to intensify operations against ULFA and by >>all indications, a coordinated operation with Myanmar Army may be in >>the offing. >> >>Last evening, as reported today, a high level meeting chaired by >>Cabinet Secretary, BK Chaturvedi and attended by top brass of the >>three services, intelligence officials, was held at South Block to >>take stock of the internal security situation including Army >>operations in Asom. >> >> >>Government of India has decided to provide all assistance to Myanmar >>Army, as the neighbouring country was willing to help India. >>Significantly, Defence Secretary Shekhar Dutta had last month paid a >>quiet visit to Myanmar to discuss the demand for weapons. He briefed >>the meeting about the outcome of his visit. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>****What leaves me curious about is if GoI was aware of Burma's >>military dictatorship's activities spanning decades, as relates to >>its people's democratic aspirations, and how it fit with India's own >>dedication to democracy? And the ATs too? >> >> >> >> >>Any ideas? >> >> >> >> >>Best. >> >> >> >> >>cm >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>At 1:29 PM +0100 10/4/07, ranenkumar goswami wrote: >> >>>Newsmen's support to Burmese cause >>> >>Guwahati, October 4: The Journalists' Forum, Assam on >> >>Thursday urged the Government of India to create >>diplomatic pressure on the Burmese junta to refrain >>from repressive measures against those carrying on the >> >>democracy movement in the country. >> In a meeting at the Guwahati Press Club with JFA >>president Rupam Baruah in chair, the newsmen's body >>asked the Union Government not to remain silent on the >>happenings in the neighbouring country and do the >>needful within its powers to facilitate a peaceful >>transition to democracy. >> Extending its whole-hearted support to the >>movement, the Forum demanded that Aung San Suu Kyi, >>the globally recognized pro-democracy leader, be >>immediately released from the prolonged detention she >>is being made to undergo. It deplored the brutal >>killing of protesting citizens including one foreign >>journalist. >> The meeting expressed its solidarity with the >>proposed Global Action Day for Free Burma to be >>observed on October 6. >> The meeting was addressed among others by Dr >> >>Amalendu Guha, Hemanta Barman, Dr Abdul Mannan, >>Nilamoni Sen Deka, Hiten Mahanta, Nava Thakuria, >>Jayanta Gogoi, Jawaharlal Saha and Satish Tahbildar. >> >> >> >> >> Download prohibited? No problem. CHAT from any browser, >>without download. Go to >><http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php/>http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php/ >> >>_______________________________________________ >>assam mailing list >><mailto:assam@assamnet.org>assam@assamnet.org >> >><http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>assam mailing list >><mailto:assam@assamnet.org>assam@assamnet.org >><http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>assam mailing list >><mailto:assam@assamnet.org>assam@assamnet.org >><http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>assam mailing list >><mailto:assam@assamnet.org>assam@assamnet.org >><http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org> >>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> >> >>Uttam Kumar Borthakur >> >> >>Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. >><http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_webmessenger_10/*http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php>Click >>here. >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>assam mailing list >><mailto:assam@assamnet.org>assam@assamnet.org >><http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>assam mailing list >><mailto:assam@assamnet.org>assam@assamnet.org >><http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>assam mailing list >><mailto:assam@assamnet.org>assam@assamnet.org >><http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>assam mailing list >><mailto:assam@assamnet.org> assam@assamnet.org >><http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>assam mailing list >><mailto:assam@assamnet.org>assam@assamnet.org >><http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org> >>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>assam mailing list >>assam@assamnet.org >>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > _______________________________________________ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
