At 11:01 AM -0500 9/30/02, Alpana B. Sarangapani wrote:
>>*** No one would doubt your empathy Alpana. That is not the issue. We >also
>> >know that when you go trash the Assamese people, you trash ONLY >the bad
>> >ones; even though from the sounds of your notes, almost all >of Assam
>>seem





>Trashing the Assamese people, C'da? How could you accuse me of that?


"These exploiters don't need Delhi's help to exploit the common Assamese.
They have been doing it for decades and have fattened themselves on the
sweat of the common people. No matter how much money Assam gets, if these
parasites are not locked up, the common Assamese will always suffer, because
the money will never percolate to them. It will either stop at Dispur or go
in some corrupt (flood control, pwd, etc.) engineers' or officials' pockets."


*** The above are all Assamese folks aren't they? Or are you excluding the
not-so-nice  people of Assam when you talk of the 'Assamese people' ?  I
could be wrong, but I thought when you talk of the Assamese people, it
includes the good, the bad and the 'terrorist' too.





It was
>about the 'ghush-khur's (and in Assam, the context here, majority of these
>people are the Assamese)- the ones that eat up the public money who in turn
>are exploiting the COMMON Assamese people only (people like my friends and
>family). So would you point out where I am "trashing" THE Assamese people
>and NOT the 'ghus-khur's?


*** But thats why I wrote:"--- We also
>>know that when you go trash the Assamese people, you trash ONLY the bad
>>ones;"


You are being ruthless with me A.






>Moreover, what do you think I am, C'da? Bihari/Madraji/Chinese or Italian?


*** Now why would I think of you like that? Gimme a break, would ya?






>Even Billy Crystal(?) didn't (kinda) have the heart to throw De vito's(?)old
>mama from the train, and you plan to throw me already? I thought you were a
>fair minded person (who believes in 'kothare kotha kaataa')  who believes in
>non-violence, even when he/she loses the battle. :(


*** That's it. Billy Crystal and Danny De Vito alright.  You saw the movie?
How did you like it?

It was just an illustrationn of a point A. I have no plans to suggest to
anyone to give YOU such a treatment. Honest :-).



c-da




PS: More and more it looks like your definition of 'terrorist' is a work in
progress. But I am sure you will get it right one of these days.


>>learn something new. I think I get it, finally--that if someone is not a
>>Gandhian (non-viloent) then he is a terrorist. No wonder we see the use of
>
>You forgot the main criterion, C'da. They KILL people!



******************************************************************************






>>From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: "Alpana Sarangapani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Subject: Re: Schools/Education in Assam
>>Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 09:16:56 -0500
>>
>>At 1:01 AM -0500 9/30/02, Alpana Sarangapani wrote:
>> >> *** Holy mackerel! ULFA as the non-violent reformer ? You must have
>>been
>> >> reading too much fiction. Where did this idea come from?
>> >
>> >Who else? From you and a handful of netters who have always been
>>maintaining
>> >that they are not violent (ie not terrorists).
>> >I've never heard of non-violent terrorist. So, now you admit that these
>> >people are terrorists. We can put that to rest now.
>>
>>
>>*** I did? That definitely is news to me Alpana. As they say, you always
>>learn something new. I think I get it, finally--that if someone is not a
>>Gandhian (non-viloent) then he is a terrorist. No wonder we see the use of
>>the epihet so often. Thanks for putting the mystery to rest. We owe you one
>>:-).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >> Pothar :-)? I could use his simile in my case too. Someone has to stand
>>up
>> >> for the people of Assam. I try my little part.
>> >
>> >What do you think we are? Going against the people of Assam?
>>
>>*** Why would I think a thing like that A ? I know I annoy people, even
>>enrage some. But I don't go about casting aspersions on their sincerity.
>>Oh, occasionally maybe. But only when the arguments become way too
>>disingenuous, not when they are merely child-like :-).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >In your case,
>> >you will somehow or the other, find an invisible link to some one in
>>Delhi.
>>
>>
>>*** You are seeing the picture now. I SEE things that many don't. And many
>>pretend they don't. The INVISIBILITY is a relative term in this instance.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >The rest of us can see the real picture - the real suffering of the
>>common
>> >people of Assam and the real perpetrators who are full blooded Assamese -
>> >the exploiters.
>>
>>*** No one would doubt your empathy Alpana. That is not the issue. We also
>>know that when you go trash the Assamese people, you trash ONLY the bad
>>ones; even though from the sounds of your notes, almost all of Assam seem
>>like that today. You are always on the side of the good, (mom and apple pie
>>too). I won't hold it against you. You chastise the Assamese people like a
>>good mother does her son. All for his good. To have him shape up, mend his
>>ways.
>>
>>We know that.
>>
>>But when a good mother goes about chastising the child , with reason or
>>without, the child might begin to think of the well intentioned mother as a
>>nag.  And sometimes even worse. Reminds me of the movie 'I Threw Momma Off
>>the Train' ( Danny De Vito et al) :-)?
>>
>>But seriouslty, we need to understand WHY so many in Assam, and much more
>>of them elsewhere in India, turn CORRUPT. Like the child, they are NOT born
>>that way. You can understand that, can't you? If it is not an innate
>>condition, something else is the reason that turns them bad. I would
>>suggest you give that some thought. I have an ulterior motive in suggesting
>>that: so you won't perceive *me* as the Dhritarastra or a terrorist :-).
>>
>>
>>
>> >Assam has 2 major problems. One is corruption at all levels, and 2nd, the
>> >insurgency problem.
>>
>>*** I could name a few more. But I will go along with you. (It is no fun
>>getting you mad!). Guess what, BOTH are related. Has the same mother in the
>>case of Assam. I'll let you figure out how. But if you can't, let me know.
>>I'll help out.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >These might sound like a broken
>> >record to you now, but you seem to be living in utopia, that there is no
>> >corruption in Assam, and if there is any, it is coming from Delhi.
>>
>>*** You have really taken to putting words in my mouth A. I hope that is
>>not a sign that you are running out of arguments :-).  I NEVER, ever, said
>>there is no corruption in Assam. In fact I was one of the first here in
>>this net to dwell on that when, some years back we started debating these
>>issues. But I see the roots of corruption residing in issues that you can't
>>seem to see. That is where the disjuncture is.
>>
>>BTW, I live in Florissant, MO. Utopia is in North Lakhimpur :-).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >Do they
>> >have a corruption training camp in Delhi where the Assamese 'ghus-khurs'
>>go
>> >and "learn" how to take 'ghus'?
>>
>>*** You might HAVE stumbled on to a great piece of revelation here A.  As a
>>matter of fact there IS a Corruption training camp. Make it an university.
>>IIC-Delhi. One of the world's best. Indeed many of Assam's luminaries in
>>the field are graduates from there .And in fact many are adjunct professors
>>in the extension units of the NE.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >Its high time we come to our senses and eradicate the culprits at home.
>>
>>*** What do you suggest Assam do? How would YOU go about doing it? How
>>would you cut off the nutrients that feed the corrupt and sustain them? How
>>would you put the fear of god in them? How would you turn things around?
>>
>>I'll tell you this: prayer is not the answer. Nor calling names.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >When
>> >that is done, we can collectively go after the thieves in Delhi who are
>> >exploiting us.
>>
>>
>>*** Do you really believe there are thieves in Delhi? Or exploiters? Come
>>on A., you don't have to throw that in as a sweetener. We can take the
>>bitter pills of Assamese corruption and failures :-).
>>
>>
>>Have a nice day.
>>
>>
>>c-da
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >These exploiters don't need Delhi's help to exploit the common Assamese.
>> >They have been doing it for decades and have fattened themselves on the
>> >sweat of the common people. No matter how much money Assam gets, if these
>> >parasites are not locked up, the common Assamese will always suffer,
>>because
>> >the money will never percolate to them. It will either stop at Dispur or
>>go
>> >in some corrupt (flood control, pwd, etc.) engineers' or officials'
>>pockets.
>> >
>> >Assam has 2 major problems. One is corruption at all levels, and 2nd, the
>> >insurgency problem. One feeds the other. These might sound like a broken
>> >record to you now, but you seem to be living in utopia, that there is no
>> >corruption in Assam, and if there is any, it is coming from Delhi. Do
>>they
>> >have a corruption training camp in Delhi where the Assamese 'ghus-khurs'
>>go
>> >and "learn" how to take 'ghus'?
>> >
>> >Come on C'da, you are preaching to the choir here, we are from Assam too,
>> >and we've helplessly seen the corrupt all along. The last thing they need
>>is
>> >some moral support and justification for their actions.
>> >
>> >Its high time we come to our senses and eradicate the culprits at home.
>>When
>> >that is done, we can collectively go after the thieves in Delhi who are
>> >exploiting us.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Chan Mahanta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >To: "Alpana Sarangapani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
>> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 10:30 PM
>> >Subject: Re: Schools/Education in Assam
>> >
>> >
>> >> At 8:28 PM -0500 9/29/02, Alpana Sarangapani wrote:
>> >> >Why has it been so hard, C'da? In all your magnanimity, you should
>>have
>> >been
>> >> >able to point the finger at the culprits, especially when it is so
>> >obvious.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> *** That is probably where my troubles lie A. I can see things that
>>some
>> >don't.
>> >> And the obvious is not always where the problems lie.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >How long do you plan to cover up for such people - your love for them
>> >knows
>> >> >no bounds.
>> >>
>> >> *** Wasn't it Digambar PUngta who said his heart is wide like Jerenga
>> >> Pothar :-)? I could use his simile in my case too. Someone has to stand
>>up
>> >> for the people of Assam. I try my little part.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >It is there on the first sentence - I pasted it here again:
>> >> >
>> >> >> >>GUWAHATI, Sept 27 : The State Education Department has  failed to
>> >bring
>> >> >> >>much of a change in the educational scenario even after spending
>>Rs
>> >> >> >>15,000 crore in the last 15 years. No other department of the
>>Assam
>> >> >
>> >> >You don't think I have inside information, do you?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> *** No I don't really think you do Alpana. Never did. I do think you
>>fall
>> >> for the headlines at face value. Unfortunately what is on the surface
>>is
>> >> the symptom only. The causes lie elsewhere. If you never go to that
>> >> 'elsewhere' you will never know why the things happen that get you so
>> >> upset.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >> share. How the whole thing seems to work in your view that is,
>>ending
>> >up
>> >> >> with what you so passionately point out for our benefit.
>> >> >
>> >> >Why? Don't we all know it? That was there in the report too:
>> >> >
>> >> >> >>Official sources told The Sentinel  that corruption and other
>> >> >malpractices
>> >> >> >>are responsible for the poor show of the  Education Department.
>>The
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> *** That is one more example of a facile assessment. Nobody asks WHY
>> >> corruption happens, and why it continues to get worse. And since they
>> >don't
>> >> ask, they will never know either.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >And you asked me how to rectify? Isn't that easy too? Corruption at
>>all
>> >> >levels need to go!
>> >>
>> >> *** I knew you must have had a solution A. Yes indeed--corruption must
>>go.
>> >> But HOW do you go about performing that disappearing trick on
>>corruption
>> >is
>> >> the big question. Indian rope trick won't work though. I have this urge
>>to
>> >> suggest holding a good Indian style democratic election and vote out
>> >> corruption. But I won't get you more angry. I do enough already :-).
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >And I hear, everybody thought ULFA was starting to do
>> >> >just that (without violence!),
>> >>
>> >> *** Holy mackerel! ULFA as the non-violent reformer ? You must have
>>been
>> >> reading too much fiction. Where did this idea come from?
>> >>
>> >> But seriously WHY did Assam need an ULFA to initiate reform Alpana?
>>Ever
>> >> thought of  that?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >but then the story took a turn for the worse
>> >> >and now we even have a bigger mess - corruption with a vengeance!
>>power!
>> >> >hatred and killings!
>> >>
>> >> *** So. Was it the ULFA government that pushed Assam from the frying
>>pan
>> >> into the fire? To tell you the truth, I don't think ULFA ever was in
>> >power,
>> >> in charge. Really. To have expected ULFA, with the Indian army on its
>> >back,
>> >> to save Assam is the height of delusion is how I see it.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >Delhi is corrupt, yes!
>> >>
>> >> *** Really? Why? What is Delhi's excuse? Terrorists?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >But in many cases like this, Delhi does not figure in
>> >> >this at all.
>> >>
>> >> *** Oh? Ever asked where Delhi gets the money? Believe me, there is no
>> >> money tree plantation at Indraprastha. And they can PRINT only so much.
>>It
>> >> must come from somewhere else. Delhi collects its wealth from the far
>> >flung
>> >> empire. So that, in its enduring generosity and with its vast wisdom,
>>can
>> >> redistribute what they collect, commensurate with the vassals'needs and
>> >> deservedness, as determined by the wise at Delhi.
>> >>
>> >> Having collected and redistributed the wealth with its innate wisdom,
>> >Delhi
>> >> washes its hands of any responsibility. And when it stays engaged, it
>>does
>> >> only to make sure its interest is served. And that interest is served,
>>for
>> >> one,  by rewarding those who sing its praise. And how does that
>>interest
>> >> jive with the people of Assam's interests?
>> >>
>> >> That my friend is the big mystery of it all.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >Delhi sent the money, and the "patriots" of Assam grab all that
>> >> >money for their own purposes. If Delhi is at fault, the only thing you
>> >can
>> >> >say is that they don't ask for proper accounting from the state. Of
>> >course,
>> >> >if they did that, you and your ilk will still get upset.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> *** I see. Delhi does not do what it ought to, because MY ilk might be
>> >> upset. Whew, never realized how sensitive Delhi is to my ilk's likes
>>and
>> >> dislikes.
>> >> Tsk tsk, Alpana. I expected more from you :-).
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >--why do you act like Dhritarashtra all the time?
>> >>
>> >> *** I am not much for Hindu eopics A, but I presume you are alluding to
>> >> Dhritarastra's blindness. If so. maybe you might attribute that to my
>> >> impaired vision. Then again it might be because I see what you don't
>>want
>> >> to :-).
>> >>
>> >> Take care.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> c-da
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>  Delhi sent the money, and the "patriots" of Assam grab all that
>> >> >money for their own purposes. If Delhi is at fault, the only thing you
>> >can
>> >> >say is that they don't ask for proper accounting from the state. Of
>> >course,
>> >> >if they did that, you and your ilk will still get upset.
>> >> >
>> >> >I answered your question. You still haven't mine:
>> >> >> >all due respect, why do you act like Dhritarashtra all the time?
>> >> >
>> >> >With regards,
>> >> >--Alpana.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >----- Original Message -----
>> >> >From: "Chan Mahanta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> >To: "Alpana Sarangapani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
>> >> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> >Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 4:23 PM
>> >> >Subject: Re: Schools/Education in Assam
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> A:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Let me ask again:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >*** Now let me ask you the same question. Who do YOU think is/are
>> >> >> >responsible? And HOW exactly might that be rectified, and prevented
>>in
>> >> >the
>> >> >> >future?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I am sure netters would like to hear of your thoughts, if you care
>>to
>> >> >> share. How the whole thing seems to work in your view that is,
>>ending
>> >up
>> >> >> with what you so passionately point out for our benefit.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> c-da
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> At 3:19 PM -0500 9/29/02, Alpana Sarangapani wrote:
>> >> >> >>central govt. is hugely responsible for the situation, TOGETHER
>>with
>> >the
>> >> >> >>Assam govt./s, past or present. I know you don't like to hear me
>>say
>> >> >that,
>> >> >> >>but that is the bitter truth.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >I won't mind hearing it - if it WAS the truth, C'da.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Do you think the Central government is **even** responsible for the
>> >> >> >character of those people in Assam? How? And if that was the case
>>how
>> >> >come
>> >> >> >some people from the same place, aren't corrupted - do their work
>>to
>> >take
>> >> >> >care of themselves without going for the public money?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >And you talk about people taking responsibilities for their own
>> >action?
>> >> >With
>> >> >> >all due respect, why do you act like Dhritarashtra all the time?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> >From: "Chan Mahanta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> >> >To: "Alpana Sarangapani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
>> >> >> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> >> >Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 9:30 PM
>> >> >> >Subject: Re: Schools/Education in Assam
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >At 11:53 PM -0500 9/27/02, Alpana Sarangapani wrote:
>> >> >> >>    If we search very hard we might find the word  "Delhi" written
>> >all
>> >> >> >>over the place here.     C'da: Any comments?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >*** Unfortunately you are correct for the most part Alpana. Yes
>> >> >indeed,the
>> >> >> >central govt. is hugely responsible for the situation, TOGETHER
>>with
>> >the
>> >> >> >Assam govt./s, past or present. I know you don't like to hear me
>>say
>> >> >that,
>> >> >> >but that is the bitter truth.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >*** Now let me ask you the same question. Who do YOU think is/are
>> >> >> >responsible? And HOW exactly might that be rectified, and prevented
>>in
>> >> >the
>> >> >> >future?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >c-da
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> >http://www.sentinelassam.com/
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Rs 15,000 cr spent in 15 years, but no marked  change in Education
>> >Dept
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>By a Staff Reporter
>> >> >> >>GUWAHATI, Sept 27 : The State Education Department has  failed to
>> >bring
>> >> >> >>much of a change in the educational scenario even after spending
>>Rs
>> >> >> >>15,000 crore in the last 15 years. No other department of the
>>Assam
>> >> >> >>Government had received such a huge allocation of funds.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Schools in Assam are marked by  non-existence of drinking water,
>> >black
>> >> >> >>board, toilet and other basic  necessities.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Official sources told The Sentinel  that corruption and other
>> >> >malpractices
>> >> >> >>are responsible for the poor show of the  Education Department.
>>The
>> >> >> >>Department is currently spending a lion's share of its  budget for
>> >> >payment
>> >> >> >>of salaries to the huge workforce of teachers. Political
>> >interference
>> >> >and
>> >> >> >>corruption in the appointment of teachers have proved to be the
>>last
>> >> >nail
>> >> >> >>in the Department's coffin.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>There are 1.44 lakh teachers at the primary  level, and among them
>>a
>> >> >large
>> >> >> >>section of teachers were appointed through the  backdoor without
>> >taking
>> >> >> >>into account the fund position of the Education  Department. On
>>the
>> >> >other
>> >> >> >>hand, about 20 per cent of the teachers have been  estimated to be
>> >> >"ghost"
>> >> >> >>teachers. Though the "ghost" teachers only exist in  paper, a
>>section
>> >of
>> >> >> >>officials of the Education Department are siphoning off  money for
>> >> >payment
>> >> >> >>of salaries to these teachers.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Sources said that the Education Department  during the previous
>>years
>> >> >had
>> >> >> >>failed to give the accurate number of teachers in  the State
>>before
>> >the
>> >> >> >>Assam Assembly. Figures of the Department are quite  misleading,
>> >sources
>> >> >> >>said.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Allegations of corruption have once again  surfaced following the
>> >> >> >>regularization of a large number of teachers whom the  Manoharan
>> >> >Committee
>> >> >> >>report categorized as illegal and irregular.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>About 500 out of 7500 teachers have been  made permanent and
>>regular
>> >> >> >>during the last two years. But the Education  Department is yet to
>> >find
>> >> >> >>out the files regarding appointment of 500 teachers.  Sources said
>> >that
>> >> >at
>> >> >> >>a time when the Education department has initiated a move  to
>> >regularise
>> >> >> >>3500 teachers as per the recommendations of the Manoharan
>>Committee,
>> >a
>> >> >> >>section of district level officials of the department has
>>reportedly
>> >> >> >>appointed 1000 new teachers.
>> >> >>
>> >>
>
>
>
>
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