I can fully agree with what you have written. 100%


On 04.12.23 at 13:52 aster...@phreaknet.org wrote:
I strongly object to not having an asterisk-dev list. Mailing lists are essential for FOSS developer discussion. The majority of non-ephemeral development discussion happens either on IRC or here on the asterisk-dev list - just check the archives to see that it's still active. Most of us are not on the community forums and/or couldn't be bothered to use them. You can go and see now that "Development" on the community forums is basically dead, because nobody wants to use it, so trying to push that on everyone is a terrible idea.

Even for users, I think the loss of asterisk-users will be a major loss. Far more *discussion* is happening on the Discourse forum, but far more *quality* discussion still happens on asterisk-users. Being on a mailing list seems to be a natural weedout for junk questions. More serious questions still seem to come through on the mailing list. The community forums is far fuller of useless postings from people who can't tell a hard drive from a memory stick. Nobody wants to wade through a bunch of low-quality posts to find the few that might have some use. Thus, getting rid of asterisk-users would see a significant drop in the average quality of user engagement. But at least, even if the -users list is dropped, the -dev list should stick around in some form.

I know the forums can have emails enabled that you can receive, and no, that's not a proper replacement for a mailing list.

GitHub Discussions aren't a proper mailing list, either, so ultimately I think that will run into the same issue. GitHub has a lot of bells and whistles but most of them aren't as built out as using the proper tool they try to emulate.

I think #3 is the right choice. It's using the right tool for the right job. If you don't want to maintain the lists, have somebody else do it. I do a combination of hosted and self-hosted for my own lists. Contrary to the opinions of some, people, especially technical people, have not "moved on" from mailing lists; they are widely used, and I get hundreds of emails a day from them that I have a good workflow for.

Most lists I'm on that used to be elsewhere (e.g. Yahoo Groups, Google Groups, mailman, LISTSERV, other custom or independent platforms) have now migrated to groups.io and are generally highly satisfied with it compared to other platforms. It used to be completely free; it's now free for lists under 100 members, or ones that are grandfathered in. As the maintainer of several lists there and a member of many more, I've been pretty happy with it.

I'd suggest creating a list there and letting people on this list manually opt into it, since there are probably a lot of people on mailman that aren't active anymore. If it's under 100 members, it's completely free anyways. If more than 100 people join, that means people here *really* like mailing lists and find value in them, and I'm sure Sangoma can afford $20 a month for it, if it really doesn't want to run mailman lists anymore that badly, and $20 is a small price to keep developers happy.


On 12/4/2023 7:28 AM, Jaco Kroon wrote:


My 5c.  Killing the dev list is a bad idea.

Most developers could not care about having to poll forums.  It also means that stuff that would previously get an audience will now get none.

github discussions are better than forums at least.

May I inquire as to the problem you're having with the ML? Perhaps I might be able to assist ...

Kind regards,

On 2023/12/04 14:00, Joshua C. Colp wrote:

Greetings all,

Over the past few years, the use of the Asterisk mailing lists has diminished, with far more conversation happening on the Asterisk community forums[1]. The state of email, to ensure reliable delivery, has also gotten more complicated - emails get caught by spam filters, etc.. To continue the mailing lists would require a huge time and resource investment, for minimal use.

To that end, we’ve decided to discontinue the mailing lists effective February 1st, 2024.

This means the following:

1. Sending and receiving mailing list emails will no longer be possible.
2. The list archives, however, will remain available.

We need to decide the future of the asterisk-dev mailing list; specifically, where to hold discussions in the future. There are a few options:

1. A “Development” category exists on https://community.asterisk.org/ already that can be used.
2. We can use GitHub discussions, which keeps things with the GitHub project.
3. We can use a hosted mailing list elsewhere.

We suggest option #2, since it keeps things with the GitHub project, which is where everything development-related happens now regardless. This has been set up and enabled already.

If you have any input, now is the time to state it.


Joshua C. Colp
Asterisk Project Lead
Sangoma Technologies
Check us out at www.sangoma.com <http://www.sangoma.com> and www.asterisk.org <http://www.asterisk.org>

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