I think those comments are very helpful, and for the most part I agree that this is what voicemail in Asterisk should aspire to.
But, from what I know of IMAP (which is admittedly not much), it is not fully fleshed-out or supported yet. And, since I believe that there are plans to work on voicemail as part of the core asterisk product, I would rather keep things simple for now, and address the really simple and untenable shortcomings. For me, a dialplan-based voicemail would serve several goals. 1) quickly deliver a voicemail system that would present a user interface that would meet the needs of the customer and be extensible. Some of the things that could be changed include: -- allow for remote remote notification, which most voicemail systems enable through the user interface. -- remove the extra folders such as "friends" and "family", which many businesses do not understand the purpose of -- too many to list 2) get something going quickly that anyone with a knowledge of dialplans would be able to understand, work with and add to 3) get some feedback from the community along the lines of "I could do better than that", which will stimulate development 4) complement what Olle is trying to do with Minivm My concern with what you are suggesting is that if we start getting into the list of all the things it should do on the network, we are looking at quite a different beast. Personally, I just want to address the basic functionality. From there, all kinds of things are possible. And if you want to use Microsoft for voicemail, that should be do-able. Do they not have a SIP interface in their LCS product? The way I see it, if a more advanced voicemail is desired, it can be had from a 3rd party, as long as there is a way to deliver MWI to the sets (CallExpress is working on SIP/Asterisk functionality, I spoke to them about it). I totally agree with what you are saying, but I am coming at this from a different perspective. I am not looking to build the perfect voicemail, but merely to get something simple for asterisk that is not totally frustrating to the users. Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: John Lange [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: July 25, 2007 12:06 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: [on-asterisk] replacing app_voicemail > > If I may chip in with my $0.02. > > First, I believe a completely new Asterisk voicemail system > would be great because the existing one leaves a lot to be > desired especially when it comes to customization or removing > useless menu items. > > However, my comment is on the backend storage. There seems to > be some discussion on how to manipulate the file system for > messages and so-on with the implicit assumption that the file > system is the appropriate place for message storage. > > Using the file system for storage immediately implies your > voice mail system will not support "unified messaging". > "Unified Messaging" is clearly the future so any discussion > of voicemail storage should start there. (And no, voicemail > to email is _not_ unified messaging.) > > Personally I wouldn't even bother with the file based system > and skip straight to IMAP. Many of the questions you are > pondering about file naming, locking, "deleted" flag, etc. > are exactly what IMAP already does. Combine that with > existing MTA (Postfix) and you now have a simple mechanism > for moving messages between voicemail systems. > > And as long as the interface layer is abstracted someone can > write one that works with Exchange. Like it or not, > Microsoft is making VoIP systems now and they are integrated > with Exchange so any business that uses Exchange will expect > that as a minimum. > > I hope these comments are helpful. > > Regards, > > John Lange > > On Wed, 2007-07-25 at 09:44 -0400, Jim Van Meggelen wrote: > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Dave Bour [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: July 25, 2007 8:04 AM > > > To: Jim Van Meggelen; Philip Mullis; Simon P. Ditner > > > Cc: [email protected] > > > Subject: RE: [on-asterisk] replacing app_voicemail > > > > > > Regarding the delete on logout, how about a long term archive. I > > > can't think of the number of times I've been asked if a voicemail > > > can be recovered, after someone has hung up. Make it > like exchange > > > or something...change a flag to mark deleted..move it a deleted > > > folder on logout or something...deleted folder not > "playable" from > > > dial plan but maybe available via web or "admin login". > > > > That is a very interesting idea indeed. Some sort of purge schedule > > could be devised. > > > > > A goto message number would be nice as well as first/last message > > > option. In my old folder, I have typically 25-50 messages > > > stored until > > > the event relating to it has passed. This is tedious moving > > > 1 at a time through them on any system, Octel or *. > > > > Good idea. Are you sure the Octel doesn't have it? I think > that is one > > of those features that don't get used/documented. > > > > > Another feature...sending messages between systems...much > like Octel > > > can message another Bell customer, regardless of the switch it's > > > on...I've multiple office clients where this has been requested > > > before. Today, they can email the message (assuming they're > > > configured for it) but it'd be nice to simply forward to the > > > extension of the other office and it goes. > > > > The VPIM protocol was created for just that purpose. The > industry has > > largely abandoned it, but most voicemail systems suppport it. It > > shouldn't be too hard to make asterisk VPIM compliant, since it is > > based on SMTP/MIME > > > > > And message pickup between systems. Today, some ITSP's > let you have > > > a "backup" voicemail like lesnet, or even the Bell octel > system as a > > > backup if all lines are full...to be able to pickup from one of > > > those > > > systems...and dump into a "common" mailbox for an office. The > > > receptionist or someone could gather those, and forward to the > > > appropriate person... > > > > Putting voicemail into the dialplan makes all kinds of nifty things > > possible. > > > > > Shared voicemail....one voicemail between multiple > lines...today I > > > simply link the folders... > > > > Nice! > > > > > Group voicemail... A group voicemail account that can be > seen by a > > > collection of users...think call center such that > whoever's free can > > > grab it...maybe as a folder in their own (yet MWI work if it's > > > there) as well as maintaining their existing private mailbox. > > > > > > That's all my thoughts for now. > > > Dave > > > > Nice stuff, Dave. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Jim Van Meggelen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 11:38 PM > > > > To: 'Philip Mullis'; 'Simon P. Ditner' > > > > Cc: [email protected] > > > > Subject: RE: [on-asterisk] replacing app_voicemail > > > > > > > > I've brainstormed this a few times with Leif and Andrew. > > > > > > > > If I recall, the problems we anticipated were MWI (which > > > now appears > > > > to be > > > > solved) and file/message management (which is still a potential > > > > problem, especially if we want to do it all in the dialplan). > > > > > > > > Solve that, and the dialplan work doesn't seem so daunting. > > > > > > > > It'd be pretty cool to be able to release something that > > > people could > > > > build on. A dialplan-based voicemail would allow people to > > > modify the > > > > voicemail to emulate their favorite traditional > voicemail system. > > > > I picture some sort of central repository that contains > packages > > > > of various voicemail types; all community-built. > > > > > > > > Off the top of my head, here are some things that we'd need > > > to figure > > > > out. > > > > > > > > - how do we track messages? I log in, have 20 messages in > > > my INBOX. I > > > > want to delete message 3, 7 and 15. What happens when I log out? > > > > -- can I undelete in the same session? (in other words, > > > don't delete > > > > the message until I log out) > > > > -- when I listen to a message, it can't move from the > INBOX to Old > > > > unless one of two events happen: > > > > -- 1) I move it manually > > > > -- 2) I log out > > > > -- when I move it, it has to be re-numbered > > > > > > > > And so on. > > > > > > > > Frankly, I don't think that we should be a slave to the way > > > asterisk > > > > does things, but just trying to replicate the current > > > > functionality helps to understand the file management > challenges. > > > > > > > > Perhaps we have to use the database, but the masochist in > > > me wants to > > > > see if it can be done in the dialplan. > > > > > > > > Since the most popular voicemail system in North > America is Octel > > > > (unless something huge has changed since I last > checked), it may > > > > be that this is the system we should select as our > first effort. > > > > (not sure how the copyright works on that, so we'd better call > > > it CrocTel > > > > or something). > > > > > > > > I found a user guide online that would serve as a pretty > > > good starting > > > > point for the user features we'd want to emulate. > > > > > > > > Google for 'octel user guide' and the first link has a PDF > > > that'll get > > > > us started. The Octel system is really quite a bit more > > > flexible than > > > > that, so we may want to compare a few user guides. > > > > > > > > I can write this up into something that's not a PDF if > you want. > > > > We can then work through it and decide what to prioritize. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Jim Van Meggelen > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2177 > > > > > > > > "A child is the ultimate startup, and I have three. > > > > This makes me rich." > > > > Guy Kawasaki > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Philip Mullis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Sent: July 24, 2007 10:39 PM > > > > > To: Jim Van Meggelen; Simon P. Ditner > > > > > Cc: [email protected] > > > > > Subject: RE: [on-asterisk] replacing app_voicemail > > > > > > > > > > Any suggestions for a draft on what would make up a great > > > > replacement > > > > > :) im willing to start stabing at some coding. > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > Philip Mullis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > From: Jim Van Meggelen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Sent: Tue 7/24/2007 10:31 PM > > > > > To: 'Simon P. Ditner' > > > > > Cc: [email protected] > > > > > Subject: RE: [on-asterisk] replacing app_voicemail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That MWI bit is pretty handy, and makes the concept worth > > > > looking at > > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > But message management is still a problem. Asterisk > > > doesn't really > > > > > have much for working with files. > > > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Simon P. Ditner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Sent: July 24, 2007 8:55 PM > > > > > > To: Jim Van Meggelen > > > > > > Cc: [email protected] > > > > > > Subject: Re: [on-asterisk] replacing app_voicemail > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jim, > > > > > > > > > > > > It's very easy. There are really only three parts: > > > > > > - MWI, which can be taken care of with a short script [1] > > > > > > - voicemail -> email; again, very easy to do with a short > > > > > > Perl/Python/PHP script > > > > > > - IVR design for message management > > > > > > > > > > > > The actual implementation is a couple hours of writing > > > > > dialplan, and > > > > > > debugging the routing. > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] http://asterisk.mdaniel.net/?p=14 > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/24/07, Jim Van Meggelen > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Have any brave souls out there tried replacing > > > app_voicemail.so? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Jim Van Meggelen > > > > > > > Core Telecom Innovations > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > www.coretel.ca > > > > > > > 416-425-6111 x6001 > > > > > > > 877-CORETEL x6001 (Canada) > > > > > > > IAX2:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/6001 > > > > > > > www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2177 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.16/914 - > > > Release Date: > > > > > > > 23/07/2007 > > > > > > > 7:45 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > - > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For > > > > > additional > > > > > > > commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > | It ain't what you don't know that gets you into > > > > trouble. It's what > > > > > > | you know for sure that just ain't so. -- Mark Twain > > > > > > | > > > > > > | The Toronto Asterisk Users Group Join the > discussion group > > > > > > | by visiting http://taug.ca <http://taug.ca/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.16/914 - Release > > > > > > Date: 23/07/2007 7:45 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.16/914 - Release > > > > > Date: 23/07/2007 > > > > > 7:45 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > - > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For > > > additional > > > > > commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.16/914 - Release > > > > > Date: 23/07/2007 7:45 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.16/914 - Release > > > > Date: 23/07/2007 > > > > 7:45 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > - > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For > additional > > > > commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.19/917 - Release > > > Date: 25/07/2007 1:16 AM > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.19/917 - Release Date: > > 25/07/2007 > > 1:16 AM > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional > > commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For > additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.19/917 - Release > Date: 25/07/2007 1:16 AM > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.19/917 - Release Date: 25/07/2007 1:16 AM --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
