Perhaps we should have a sub-pub meeting on this :) and work it out as a group.
Phil. On Wed, 2007-07-25 at 12:39 -0400, Jim Van Meggelen wrote: > I think those comments are very helpful, and for the most part I agree that > this is what voicemail in Asterisk should aspire to. > > But, from what I know of IMAP (which is admittedly not much), it is not > fully fleshed-out or supported yet. And, since I believe that there are > plans to work on voicemail as part of the core asterisk product, I would > rather keep things simple for now, and address the really simple and > untenable shortcomings. > > For me, a dialplan-based voicemail would serve several goals. > > 1) quickly deliver a voicemail system that would present a user interface > that would meet the needs of the customer and be extensible. Some of the > things that could be changed include: > -- allow for remote remote notification, which most voicemail systems enable > through the user interface. > -- remove the extra folders such as "friends" and "family", which many > businesses do not understand the purpose of > -- too many to list > > 2) get something going quickly that anyone with a knowledge of dialplans > would be able to understand, work with and add to > > 3) get some feedback from the community along the lines of "I could do > better than that", which will stimulate development > > 4) complement what Olle is trying to do with Minivm > > My concern with what you are suggesting is that if we start getting into the > list of all the things it should do on the network, we are looking at quite > a different beast. Personally, I just want to address the basic > functionality. From there, all kinds of things are possible. > > And if you want to use Microsoft for voicemail, that should be do-able. Do > they not have a SIP interface in their LCS product? The way I see it, if a > more advanced voicemail is desired, it can be had from a 3rd party, as long > as there is a way to deliver MWI to the sets (CallExpress is working on > SIP/Asterisk functionality, I spoke to them about it). > > I totally agree with what you are saying, but I am coming at this from a > different perspective. I am not looking to build the perfect voicemail, but > merely to get something simple for asterisk that is not totally frustrating > to the users. > > Jim > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Lange [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: July 25, 2007 12:06 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: [on-asterisk] replacing app_voicemail > > > > If I may chip in with my $0.02. > > > > First, I believe a completely new Asterisk voicemail system > > would be great because the existing one leaves a lot to be > > desired especially when it comes to customization or removing > > useless menu items. > > > > However, my comment is on the backend storage. There seems to > > be some discussion on how to manipulate the file system for > > messages and so-on with the implicit assumption that the file > > system is the appropriate place for message storage. > > > > Using the file system for storage immediately implies your > > voice mail system will not support "unified messaging". > > "Unified Messaging" is clearly the future so any discussion > > of voicemail storage should start there. (And no, voicemail > > to email is _not_ unified messaging.) > > > > Personally I wouldn't even bother with the file based system > > and skip straight to IMAP. Many of the questions you are > > pondering about file naming, locking, "deleted" flag, etc. > > are exactly what IMAP already does. Combine that with > > existing MTA (Postfix) and you now have a simple mechanism > > for moving messages between voicemail systems. > > > > And as long as the interface layer is abstracted someone can > > write one that works with Exchange. Like it or not, > > Microsoft is making VoIP systems now and they are integrated > > with Exchange so any business that uses Exchange will expect > > that as a minimum. > > > > I hope these comments are helpful. > > > > Regards, > > > > John Lange > > > > On Wed, 2007-07-25 at 09:44 -0400, Jim Van Meggelen wrote: > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Dave Bour [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: July 25, 2007 8:04 AM > > > > To: Jim Van Meggelen; Philip Mullis; Simon P. Ditner > > > > Cc: [email protected] > > > > Subject: RE: [on-asterisk] replacing app_voicemail > > > > > > > > Regarding the delete on logout, how about a long term archive. I > > > > can't think of the number of times I've been asked if a voicemail > > > > can be recovered, after someone has hung up. Make it > > like exchange > > > > or something...change a flag to mark deleted..move it a deleted > > > > folder on logout or something...deleted folder not > > "playable" from > > > > dial plan but maybe available via web or "admin login". > > > > > > That is a very interesting idea indeed. Some sort of purge schedule > > > could be devised. > > > > > > > A goto message number would be nice as well as first/last message > > > > option. In my old folder, I have typically 25-50 messages > > > > stored until > > > > the event relating to it has passed. This is tedious moving > > > > 1 at a time through them on any system, Octel or *. > > > > > > Good idea. Are you sure the Octel doesn't have it? I think > > that is one > > > of those features that don't get used/documented. > > > > > > > Another feature...sending messages between systems...much > > like Octel > > > > can message another Bell customer, regardless of the switch it's > > > > on...I've multiple office clients where this has been requested > > > > before. Today, they can email the message (assuming they're > > > > configured for it) but it'd be nice to simply forward to the > > > > extension of the other office and it goes. > > > > > > The VPIM protocol was created for just that purpose. The > > industry has > > > largely abandoned it, but most voicemail systems suppport it. It > > > shouldn't be too hard to make asterisk VPIM compliant, since it is > > > based on SMTP/MIME > > > > > > > And message pickup between systems. Today, some ITSP's > > let you have > > > > a "backup" voicemail like lesnet, or even the Bell octel > > system as a > > > > backup if all lines are full...to be able to pickup from one of > > > > those > > > > systems...and dump into a "common" mailbox for an office. The > > > > receptionist or someone could gather those, and forward to the > > > > appropriate person... > > > > > > Putting voicemail into the dialplan makes all kinds of nifty things > > > possible. > > > > > > > Shared voicemail....one voicemail between multiple > > lines...today I > > > > simply link the folders... > > > > > > Nice! > > > > > > > Group voicemail... A group voicemail account that can be > > seen by a > > > > collection of users...think call center such that > > whoever's free can > > > > grab it...maybe as a folder in their own (yet MWI work if it's > > > > there) as well as maintaining their existing private mailbox. > > > > > > > > That's all my thoughts for now. > > > > Dave > > > > > > Nice stuff, Dave. > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Jim Van Meggelen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 11:38 PM > > > > > To: 'Philip Mullis'; 'Simon P. Ditner' > > > > > Cc: [email protected] > > > > > Subject: RE: [on-asterisk] replacing app_voicemail > > > > > > > > > > I've brainstormed this a few times with Leif and Andrew. > > > > > > > > > > If I recall, the problems we anticipated were MWI (which > > > > now appears > > > > > to be > > > > > solved) and file/message management (which is still a potential > > > > > problem, especially if we want to do it all in the dialplan). > > > > > > > > > > Solve that, and the dialplan work doesn't seem so daunting. > > > > > > > > > > It'd be pretty cool to be able to release something that > > > > people could > > > > > build on. A dialplan-based voicemail would allow people to > > > > modify the > > > > > voicemail to emulate their favorite traditional > > voicemail system. > > > > > I picture some sort of central repository that contains > > packages > > > > > of various voicemail types; all community-built. > > > > > > > > > > Off the top of my head, here are some things that we'd need > > > > to figure > > > > > out. > > > > > > > > > > - how do we track messages? I log in, have 20 messages in > > > > my INBOX. I > > > > > want to delete message 3, 7 and 15. What happens when I log out? > > > > > -- can I undelete in the same session? (in other words, > > > > don't delete > > > > > the message until I log out) > > > > > -- when I listen to a message, it can't move from the > > INBOX to Old > > > > > unless one of two events happen: > > > > > -- 1) I move it manually > > > > > -- 2) I log out > > > > > -- when I move it, it has to be re-numbered > > > > > > > > > > And so on. > > > > > > > > > > Frankly, I don't think that we should be a slave to the way > > > > asterisk > > > > > does things, but just trying to replicate the current > > > > > functionality helps to understand the file management > > challenges. > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps we have to use the database, but the masochist in > > > > me wants to > > > > > see if it can be done in the dialplan. > > > > > > > > > > Since the most popular voicemail system in North > > America is Octel > > > > > (unless something huge has changed since I last > > checked), it may > > > > > be that this is the system we should select as our > > first effort. > > > > > (not sure how the copyright works on that, so we'd better call > > > > it CrocTel > > > > > or something). > > > > > > > > > > I found a user guide online that would serve as a pretty > > > > good starting > > > > > point for the user features we'd want to emulate. > > > > > > > > > > Google for 'octel user guide' and the first link has a PDF > > > > that'll get > > > > > us started. The Octel system is really quite a bit more > > > > flexible than > > > > > that, so we may want to compare a few user guides. > > > > > > > > > > I can write this up into something that's not a PDF if > > you want. > > > > > We can then work through it and decide what to prioritize. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Jim Van Meggelen > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2177 > > > > > > > > > > "A child is the ultimate startup, and I have three. > > > > > This makes me rich." > > > > > Guy Kawasaki > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Philip Mullis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Sent: July 24, 2007 10:39 PM > > > > > > To: Jim Van Meggelen; Simon P. Ditner > > > > > > Cc: [email protected] > > > > > > Subject: RE: [on-asterisk] replacing app_voicemail > > > > > > > > > > > > Any suggestions for a draft on what would make up a great > > > > > replacement > > > > > > :) im willing to start stabing at some coding. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > Philip Mullis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Jim Van Meggelen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Sent: Tue 7/24/2007 10:31 PM > > > > > > To: 'Simon P. Ditner' > > > > > > Cc: [email protected] > > > > > > Subject: RE: [on-asterisk] replacing app_voicemail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That MWI bit is pretty handy, and makes the concept worth > > > > > looking at > > > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > > > But message management is still a problem. Asterisk > > > > doesn't really > > > > > > have much for working with files. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Simon P. Ditner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > Sent: July 24, 2007 8:55 PM > > > > > > > To: Jim Van Meggelen > > > > > > > Cc: [email protected] > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [on-asterisk] replacing app_voicemail > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jim, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's very easy. There are really only three parts: > > > > > > > - MWI, which can be taken care of with a short script [1] > > > > > > > - voicemail -> email; again, very easy to do with a short > > > > > > > Perl/Python/PHP script > > > > > > > - IVR design for message management > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The actual implementation is a couple hours of writing > > > > > > dialplan, and > > > > > > > debugging the routing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] http://asterisk.mdaniel.net/?p=14 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/24/07, Jim Van Meggelen > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Have any brave souls out there tried replacing > > > > app_voicemail.so? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Jim Van Meggelen > > > > > > > > Core Telecom Innovations > > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > www.coretel.ca > > > > > > > > 416-425-6111 x6001 > > > > > > > > 877-CORETEL x6001 (Canada) > > > > > > > > IAX2:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/6001 > > > > > > > > www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2177 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.16/914 - > > > > Release Date: > > > > > > > > 23/07/2007 > > > > > > > > 7:45 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > - > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For > > > > > > additional > > > > > > > > commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > | It ain't what you don't know that gets you into > > > > > trouble. It's what > > > > > > > | you know for sure that just ain't so. -- Mark Twain > > > > > > > | > > > > > > > | The Toronto Asterisk Users Group Join the > > discussion group > > > > > > > | by visiting http://taug.ca <http://taug.ca/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.16/914 - Release > > > > > > > Date: 23/07/2007 7:45 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.16/914 - Release > > > > > > Date: 23/07/2007 > > > > > > 7:45 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > - > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For > > > > additional > > > > > > commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.16/914 - Release > > > > > > Date: 23/07/2007 7:45 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.16/914 - Release > > > > > Date: 23/07/2007 > > > > > 7:45 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > - > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For > > additional > > > > > commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.19/917 - Release > > > > Date: 25/07/2007 1:16 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.19/917 - Release Date: > > > 25/07/2007 > > > 1:16 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional > > > commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For > > additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.19/917 - Release > > Date: 25/07/2007 1:16 AM > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.19/917 - Release Date: 25/07/2007 > 1:16 AM > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
