Hi Stephan, I'm not certain, but it seems from your description that you are using a third-party 911 verification service similar to Northern 911? As far as I can see, if such a service was used by the VoIP provider in this Calgary incident the address verification that you mention would have occurred prior to routing the call to a PSAP.
The thing that I'm not certain about from your description is that I don't believe that third-party companies such as Northern 911 make decisions about police or ambulance: their job is just to get the call to the correct PSAP, where the actual 911 operator will make a determination about service requirements. I could have this wrong for the case of hangups or callers that can't speak. As for calling back the number on file in the event of a hangup: are you certain that the third-party 911 provider is even allowed to do this? I can think of scenarios (e.g.: domestic abuse) where the last thing that I would want was the 911 operator calling me back just to check that they had the right number. It could be that the third-party call center is mandated not to call back. Again, I'm speaking through my hat on this. Getting back to the incident on hand - if the VoIP provider in this instance had used a third-party address verification service such as Northern 911 I can't see how this could have occurred. If I'm missing a layer of complexity here I would appreciate someone pointing it out. Disclaimer: I used Northern 911 in my last job, but don't own any shares ;) On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Stephan Monette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey everyone, > > Does ComWave have their own call center for 911 services or do they > sub-contract another call center for 911 services like most Canadian VoIP > providers? > > Our 911 call center treats the 911 calls like this: > > 1- First, all 911 calls are recorded and review if there's any issues or > dispute later on. > > 2- 911 agent receives the call and ask the user what is needed: fire, > ambulance or security. > > 3- Meanwhile, the 911 agent reads the address displayed on their computer > screen. > > 4- Once the user specify what they need, the agent confirms the address > before dispatching the proper service to the user (to make sure they send > the service to the right address). This step only takes a few seconds. If > there's no address on the screen, the 911 agent will ask the user for the > exact address and this will take longer to connect the call. > > So in this case with the family from Calgary, the 911 agent would have > confirmed the address with the user before dispatching the ambulance. > Hopefully, the user knows the family civic address and is able to > communicate it to the 911 agent. If the 911 agent cannot confirm the address > with the user, the agent will send the ambulance to the registered address > from the database (last known good address). > > If the 911 agent never asked to confirmed the address with the caller > before dispatching the ambulance, the phone company may be held liable for > this negligence with their 911 procedure (this is just my personal > opinion!). But hopefully, they have recorded the 911 call and show exactly > how the call was handled. > > 5- If the user can't communicate, the dispatcher will send the police to > the address in the database (last known good address). > > One issue I have with my current 911 call center (same as everyone else by > the way) is if they receive a 911 call and the call gets disconnected, the > agent will send the police to the address on file. This is fine but I would > rather want to confirm by calling back the user and cancel the police > dispatch if this was an error. The Agent never calls back the phone number > on the display. > > Same thing happens when the 911 agent receives a call with no address on > the screen and the call gets disconnected, the 911 Agent contacts our > customer service to get the address instead of calling back the user from > the number on the callerid. This procedure is very lengthy. > > This procedure creates huge delay and I wish the 911 call center would > change their procedures regarding disconnected calls. I wish they would call > back the number on the callerid to confirm if everything is OK and if the > user needs any assistance. The 911 agent should call our customer service > only as the last resort if they do not get any answer when calling back the > user. > > We do ask our customers to register their address for each number, but > most of them don't bother and it's a scary thought. > > Maybe we should all get together (VoIP providers) and put pressure with > our 911 call center to modify their procedures. > > Any thought? > > Stephan Monette > Unlimitel Inc. > > Tel.: 613-688-6212. x221 > TF : 1-877-464-6638, x221 > FAX : 613-482-1077 > > > Dave Bour wrote: > > > There's two things here that could have helped. > > 1. Database linkage of billing address to emergency address. Had that > > changed, it would or should raise a flag to investigate. > > 2. GeoIP tracking has been around for a long time. The registrar could > > again have a flag to pick up such....granted if someone moves two blocks, > > not likely this would have helped. In this case, a cross country move could > > have been picked by a GeoIP flag. > > So this raises a question though about liability and such for voice > > services providers. Where do we stand. How much insurance should we have? > > > > Dave Bour > > Desktop Solution Center > > 905.381.0077 X501 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > For people who just want IT to work > > > > Business http://www.desktopsolutioncenter.ca > > Personal http://www.davebour.com > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bill Sandiford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 1:29 AM > > > To: Dave Bour > > > Subject: Re: [on-asterisk] 911 tragedy in Calgary reveals perils of > > > VoIP > > > > > > This has already happened a few times in the US. If my memory serves > > > me > > > correctly, Vonage has (had) law suits against them in Florida and > > > Texas > > > for > > > 911 issues. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dave Bour" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "Ansar Mohammed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]> > > > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 11:40 PM > > > Subject: RE: [on-asterisk] 911 tragedy in Calgary reveals perils of > > > VoIP > > > > > > > > > Wondered how long this would take. Going to be a lot of noise over > > > this > > > one. > > > D. > > > > > > Dave Bour > > > Desktop Solution Center > > > 905.381.0077 X501 > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > For people who just want IT to work > > > > > > Business http://www.desktopsolutioncenter.ca > > > Personal http://www.davebour.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Ansar Mohammed [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 11:39 PM > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Subject: [on-asterisk] 911 tragedy in Calgary reveals perils of VoIP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "TORONTO AND CALGARY - An ambulance was dispatched in response to a > > > > > > > > > > > 911 > > > > > > > > > > call > > > > about a toddler in distress, but the Internet phone service said > > > > paramedics > > > > went to the address it had on file - a home in Mississauga - not the > > > > new > > > > home in Calgary where the distraught family waited in vain for > > > > help." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080501.wphone02/BN > > > > > > > > > > Story > > > > /National/?page=rss > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080501.wphone02/B > > > > > > > > > > NStor > > > > y/National/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20080501.wphone02> > > > > &id=RTGAM.20080501.wphone02 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- _______________________________ David Steele <insert sig line witticism here>
