Hi Stephan,
I'm not certain, but it seems from your description that you are using
a third-party 911 verification service similar to Northern 911? As
far as I can see, if such a service was used by the VoIP provider in
this Calgary incident the address verification that you mention would
have occurred prior to routing the call to a PSAP.
The thing that I'm not certain about from your description is that I
don't believe that third-party companies such as Northern 911 make
decisions about police or ambulance: their job is just to get the call
to the correct PSAP, where the actual 911 operator will make a
determination about service requirements. I could have this wrong for
the case of hangups or callers that can't speak.
As for calling back the number on file in the event of a hangup: are
you certain that the third-party 911 provider is even allowed to do
this? I can think of scenarios (e.g.: domestic abuse) where the last
thing that I would want was the 911 operator calling me back just to
check that they had the right number. It could be that the
third-party call center is mandated not to call back. Again, I'm
speaking through my hat on this.
Getting back to the incident on hand - if the VoIP provider in this
instance had used a third-party address verification service such as
Northern 911 I can't see how this could have occurred. If I'm missing
a layer of complexity here I would appreciate someone pointing it out.
Disclaimer: I used Northern 911 in my last job, but don't own any
shares ;)
On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Stephan Monette
<[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
Hey everyone,
Does ComWave have their own call center for 911 services or do
they sub-contract another call center for 911 services like most
Canadian VoIP providers?
Our 911 call center treats the 911 calls like this:
1- First, all 911 calls are recorded and review if there's any
issues or dispute later on.
2- 911 agent receives the call and ask the user what is needed:
fire, ambulance or security.
3- Meanwhile, the 911 agent reads the address displayed on their
computer screen.
4- Once the user specify what they need, the agent confirms the
address before dispatching the proper service to the user (to make
sure they send the service to the right address). This step only
takes a few seconds. If there's no address on the screen, the 911
agent will ask the user for the exact address and this will take
longer to connect the call.
So in this case with the family from Calgary, the 911 agent would
have confirmed the address with the user before dispatching the
ambulance. Hopefully, the user knows the family civic address and
is able to communicate it to the 911 agent. If the 911 agent
cannot confirm the address with the user, the agent will send the
ambulance to the registered address from the database (last known
good address).
If the 911 agent never asked to confirmed the address with the
caller before dispatching the ambulance, the phone company may be
held liable for this negligence with their 911 procedure (this is
just my personal opinion!). But hopefully, they have recorded the
911 call and show exactly how the call was handled.
5- If the user can't communicate, the dispatcher will send the
police to the address in the database (last known good address).
One issue I have with my current 911 call center (same as everyone
else by the way) is if they receive a 911 call and the call gets
disconnected, the agent will send the police to the address on
file. This is fine but I would rather want to confirm by calling
back the user and cancel the police dispatch if this was an error.
The Agent never calls back the phone number on the display.
Same thing happens when the 911 agent receives a call with no
address on the screen and the call gets disconnected, the 911
Agent contacts our customer service to get the address instead of
calling back the user from the number on the callerid. This
procedure is very lengthy.
This procedure creates huge delay and I wish the 911 call center
would change their procedures regarding disconnected calls. I wish
they would call back the number on the callerid to confirm if
everything is OK and if the user needs any assistance. The 911
agent should call our customer service only as the last resort if
they do not get any answer when calling back the user.
We do ask our customers to register their address for each number,
but most of them don't bother and it's a scary thought.
Maybe we should all get together (VoIP providers) and put pressure
with our 911 call center to modify their procedures.
Any thought?
Stephan Monette
Unlimitel Inc.
Tel.: 613-688-6212. x221
TF : 1-877-464-6638, x221
FAX : 613-482-1077
Dave Bour wrote:
There's two things here that could have helped.
1. Database linkage of billing address to emergency address.
Had that changed, it would or should raise a flag to investigate.
2. GeoIP tracking has been around for a long time. The
registrar could again have a flag to pick up such....granted
if someone moves two blocks, not likely this would have
helped. In this case, a cross country move could have been
picked by a GeoIP flag.
So this raises a question though about liability and such for
voice services providers. Where do we stand. How much
insurance should we have?
Dave Bour
Desktop Solution Center
905.381.0077 X501
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
For people who just want IT to work
Business http://www.desktopsolutioncenter.ca
Personal http://www.davebour.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Sandiford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 1:29 AM
To: Dave Bour
Subject: Re: [on-asterisk] 911 tragedy in Calgary reveals
perils of
VoIP
This has already happened a few times in the US. If my
memory serves
me
correctly, Vonage has (had) law suits against them in
Florida and Texas
for
911 issues.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Bour" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: "Ansar Mohammed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>; <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 11:40 PM
Subject: RE: [on-asterisk] 911 tragedy in Calgary reveals
perils of
VoIP
Wondered how long this would take. Going to be a lot of
noise over
this
one.
D.
Dave Bour
Desktop Solution Center
905.381.0077 X501
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
For people who just want IT to work
Business http://www.desktopsolutioncenter.ca
Personal http://www.davebour.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ansar Mohammed [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 11:39 PM
To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: [on-asterisk] 911 tragedy in Calgary reveals
perils of VoIP
"TORONTO AND CALGARY - An ambulance was dispatched in
response to a
911
call
about a toddler in distress, but the Internet phone
service said
paramedics
went to the address it had on file - a home in
Mississauga - not the
new
home in Calgary where the distraught family waited in
vain for help."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080501.wphone02/BN
Story
/National/?page=rss
<http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080501.wphone02/B
NStor
y/National/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20080501.wphone02>
&id=RTGAM.20080501.wphone02
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_______________________________
David Steele
<insert sig line witticism here>
