субота, 9 вересня 2017 р. 21:06:47 EEST Paul Licameli написано:
> On Sat, Sep 9, 2017 at 1:55 PM, Yuri Chornoivan <yurc...@ukr.net> wrote:
> > субота, 9 вересня 2017 р. 20:25:22 EEST Paul Licameli написано:
> > > From what little I know of languages, this question goes especially to
> > > Chinese and Russian translators, but maybe it is also relevant to other
> > > languages I know less about.
> > >
> > > I found a small gap in our translations. See the code below. "hour",
> > > "hours", "minute", "minutes" did not get extracted to the .pot file.
> > > The
> > > intention is to compose strings like "1 hour and 2 minutes" from
> > > translations of pieces of the phrase.
> > >
> > > But I think it is better not to fix it by giving you four more little
> >
> > words
> >
> > > to translate. Rather, give a little more context. That is, make the
> > > pieces to translate a little bigger:
> > >
> > > 1 hour
> > > %d hours
> > > 1 minute
> > > %d minutes
> > >
> > > I am thinking, for instance, that good Chinese requires a "classifier"
> >
> > word
> >
> > > before "hours" or "minutes" -- but if I ask the Chinese translator just
> >
> > for
> >
> > > the word "hour" or "hours" out of context, I would be given a
> > > translation
> > > without a classifier, and then assembling the pieces would not be good
> > > Chinese.
> > >
> > > // Use wxPLURAL to get strings
> > >
> > > sHours = wxPLURAL("hour", "hours", iHours);
> > >
> > > sMins = wxPLURAL("minute", "minutes", iMins);
> > >
> > >
> > > /* i18n-hint: A time in hours and minutes. Only translate the "and".
> >
> > */
> >
> > > sFormatted.Printf(_("%d %s and %d %s."), iHours, sHours, iMins,
> >
> > sMins);
> >
> > > return sFormatted;
> > >
> > > Below is another example of a translated phrase assembled from pieces,
> >
> > but
> >
> > > without regard to other grammars. The word "of" with no context is a
> >
> > very
> >
> > > poor thing to present to translators. Better in this case, I think,
> > > that
> > > the strings be
> > >
> > > 1 of 1 clip
> > > %d of %d clips
> > >
> > > (and really the first isn't good English, perhaps it should be "sole
> >
> > clip")
> >
> > > I am thinking of a language like Russian where "clips" above would
> >
> > properly
> >
> > > be translated into genitive plural case, but "clips" without context is
> > > again a bad thing to present to the translator. The translator would
> > > probably give me nominative plural when there is no context.
> > >
> > > wxString temp;
> > >
> > > temp.Printf(wxT("%d %s %d %s "), result.index + 1, _("of"),
> >
> > result.
> >
> > > waveTrack->GetNumClips(),
> > >
> > > result.waveTrack->GetNumClips() == 1 ? _("clip") :
> > _("clips"));
> >
> > > message += temp;
> > >
> > > Translators, can you name other examples like this? Are there other
> > > examples of English strings in the .pot file that are single words out
> > > of
> > > context, which gave you doubts and difficulties about the right answers?
> > >
> > > Paul Licameli
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I see no problems with Slavic languages for such strings. And now it is
> > easy
> > to browse Audacity code to find the hints and answers when in doubt.
> >
> > For me, the bigger problem is the actual lack of true plural forms in
> > strings
> > like
> >
> > https://github.com/audacity/audacity/blob/master/src/
> > import/ImportRaw.cpp#L402
> >
> > chans.Add(wxString::Format(_("%d Channels"), i + 1));
> >
> > Actually, there are many languages in the world with more than 2 plural
> > forms
> > and several Audacity strings ignore this (they can easily be found by
> > searching "%d" in the POT-catalog).
>
> "More than 2 plural forms" -- Do you mean, as in textbook Russian (I know
> some, I suppose Ukrainian is similar) -- when the phrase as a whole is
> nominative, then a noun may take nominative singular, genitive singular, or
> genitive plural, depending on the numeral?
>
> I don't know a good way to program that difficult variation of forms into
> language-neutral code! All we can easily do is make a one versus many
> distinction.
>
> Or do you mean the entire phrase may be in some other case, where at least
> there is just the two way distinction. Which is a reason for giving a
> little bit of context for the noun to be translated, to get correct case.
>
> Or when you think of "more than 2 plural forms" is that something entirely
> different?
>
> PRL
I just mean the usual plural forms (I'm not a linguist):
http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/latest/supplemental/
language_plural_rules.html
In my example, "%d Channels" has different translations in Ukrainian (and
Russian, if you like) depending on what %d actually is (this can be handled
with something like wxPLURAL in your example).
On the other hand, there is no context problems in Ukrainian (Russian and
Chinese, if I understand it right) with your examples. Even wrong (without
context) translations will be "right". ;)
Best regards,
Yuri
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-translation mailing list
Audacity-translation@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-translation
