On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 6:26 AM, mkpoli <snowwolf1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I checked a lot of files including GB (Chinese National Standardization)
> and some other rules.
>
> I recommend format "%{h}d 时 %{m}d 分", which means:
>
> 1 hour -> 1 时
> %d hours -> %d 时
> 1 minute -> 2 分
> %d minutes -> %d 分
>
>
> Further Reading:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> In modern Chinese language, it's extremely free to express a time:
>
> Time with both hours and minutes: there is no need for classifier.
> Time with only hours: classifier is optional.
>
> e.g. ( [] for optional)
> 1. (ENG) 1 hour and 2 minutes = (CHN) 一小时两分钟 = (Literally) One Hour
> Liang(=Two) Minute = (Writing CHN) 2 时 2 分 .
> 2. (ENG) 1 hour = (CHN) 一[个]小时 = (Literally) One [Ge(classifier)] Hour.
> 3. (ENG) 2 hours = (CHN) 两[个]小时 = (Literally) Liang(=Two) [Ge(classifier)]
> Hour.
>
> Two hours and two minutes can be translated as:
> 2 时 2 分 (Writing)
> 两小时两分钟 (Oral, not best if written down)
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
Thanks.
I don't know if %{h}d is accepted by wxString formatting -- I must research
that.
Time expressions are indeed one example of locale dependency, and again,
this bit of code, that pieces two phrases together with the format "%d %s
and %d %s.", shows more bad English grammar bias.
But aside from special expressions for time -- I was concerned about a more
general point about plurals: It's bad for us to ask that you translate
single words out of context like "track" and "tracks".
Rather, at least, "1 track" and "%d tracks". Do you agree that the proper
Chinese would use classifiers in that context, but you would not know that
you should do that for "track" or "tracks" in isolation.
And, as we have learned, Basque would need to put the numeral 1 after the
noun but other numerals before. Thus, I should give the Basque translator
"%d tracks" (or hours) and not just "tracks".
Other languages surely have their own complications too. Some languages
may even need more than two number forms. Thanks to Yuri's hints, I have
educated myself some more in how xgettext does indeed accommodate such
languages.
This particular example of times is a phrase which, in English, contains
not one but two parts that can independently vary into singular or plural
-- and this presents extra difficulty for proper internationalization!
The "%d %s and %d %s." at least is accompanied by /* i18n-hint: A time in
hours and minutes. Only translate the "and". */
But now I think it would be better first to translate "1 hour" or "%d
hours", likewise the minutes, and then substitute into "%s and %s", with a
comment about the purpose of that format.
And furthermore there are optional "contexts" for gettext, and likely "%s
and %s" should have a context connected to it.
(And "context" might also let us translate light-as-not-dark distinctly
from light-as-not-heavy, if ever that is really needed.)
PRL
>
> Paul Licameli <paul.licam...@gmail.com>于2017年9月10日周日 上午1:25写道：
>
>> From what little I know of languages, this question goes especially to
>> Chinese and Russian translators, but maybe it is also relevant to other
>> languages I know less about.
>>
>> I found a small gap in our translations. See the code below. "hour",
>> "hours", "minute", "minutes" did not get extracted to the .pot file. The
>> intention is to compose strings like "1 hour and 2 minutes" from
>> translations of pieces of the phrase.
>>
>> But I think it is better not to fix it by giving you four more little
>> words to translate. Rather, give a little more context. That is, make the
>> pieces to translate a little bigger:
>>
>> 1 hour
>> %d hours
>> 1 minute
>> %d minutes
>>
>> I am thinking, for instance, that good Chinese requires a "classifier"
>> word before "hours" or "minutes" -- but if I ask the Chinese translator
>> just for the word "hour" or "hours" out of context, I would be given a
>> translation without a classifier, and then assembling the pieces would not
>> be good Chinese.
>>
>> // Use wxPLURAL to get strings
>>
>> sHours = wxPLURAL("hour", "hours", iHours);
>>
>> sMins = wxPLURAL("minute", "minutes", iMins);
>>
>>
>> /* i18n-hint: A time in hours and minutes. Only translate the "and".
>> */
>>
>> sFormatted.Printf(_("%d %s and %d %s."), iHours, sHours, iMins,
>> sMins);
>>
>> return sFormatted;
>>
>> Below is another example of a translated phrase assembled from pieces,
>> but without regard to other grammars. The word "of" with no context is a
>> very poor thing to present to translators. Better in this case, I think,
>> that the strings be
>>
>> 1 of 1 clip
>> %d of %d clips
>>
>> (and really the first isn't good English, perhaps it should be "sole
>> clip")
>>
>> I am thinking of a language like Russian where "clips" above would
>> properly be translated into genitive plural case, but "clips" without
>> context is again a bad thing to present to the translator. The translator
>> would probably give me nominative plural when there is no context.
>>
>> wxString temp;
>>
>> temp.Printf(wxT("%d %s %d %s "), result.index + 1, _("of"),
>> result.waveTrack->GetNumClips(),
>>
>> result.waveTrack->GetNumClips() == 1 ? _("clip") : _("clips"
>> ));
>>
>> message += temp;
>>
>> Translators, can you name other examples like this? Are there other
>> examples of English strings in the .pot file that are single words out of
>> context, which gave you doubts and difficulties about the right answers?
>>
>> Paul Licameli
>>
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>
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