Hi Nick And the weight of the front seat pilot has significant elevator authority consequences. Cheers Michael
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 27 February 2007 11:31 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] RE: Another fatality I guess the descision has to be made early in a nosewheel aircraft whether or not to apply the wheel brake. The Puchatek in particular, in my experience, is a particularly nose heavy nose dragger. With both cockpits empty it will sit on either the nose or tail depending on what you want. With some other types it requires some force or a pilot sitting in the front seat to get it to go on the nosewheel. Condolences to all at Keepit. Regards, ____________ Nick Gilbert Lotus Notes Administrator - Hardy Wines "Michael Shirley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27/02/2007 10:55 AM Please respond to "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." <[email protected]> To "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'" <[email protected]> cc Subject RE: [Aus-soaring] RE: Another fatality Hi Derek Pushing forward on the stick only increases the nose wheel weight and lessens the likelihood of a change of direction. It must be full back stick, full aileron and full rudder in the direction of the down-wing. What I do not know (regretfully, have been instructing in nose-wheel 2-seaters for 12 years so I should have discovered this by now) is the speed below which the elevator becomes useless. We do teach full back stick 2 pointer touch down and to hold the stick there for the rest of the ground roll - to reduce the vibration damage from the nose wheel on our rough airfield and maximise drag. At some lower speed (after landing) initiating a ground loop becomes problematic. I wish I knew that speed as it delineates decision time to initiate a ground loop. Cheers Michael -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Derek Ruddock Sent: Tuesday, 27 February 2007 11:07 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] RE: Another fatality Is perhaps the groundloop technique of pushing forward on the stick and applying full rudder inappropriate for a nosewheeel glider? > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:aus-soaring- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shirley > Sent: Tuesday, 27 February 2007 10:17 AM > To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' > Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] RE: Another fatality > > Hi Ian > > Good point. No one has experimented to establish at what speed a Puchatek > (and perhaps many other nose-wheel gliders) lose elevator & rudder > authority. John Viney agrees we should do this experiment. If the LKSC > Puchatek is written off it would be a good opportunity to do this test - I > have passed on the idea to the committee. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian McPhee > Sent: Tuesday, 27 February 2007 9:56 AM > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] RE: Another fatality > > I am not sure but believe there are certain nose wheel gliders that are > difficult to ground loop (KRO3A just goes straight when nose wheel is on > ground and no way can you steer it). Perhaps as such aircraft come into the > country they could be fitted with the "dutch wire lifting bar" to inside of > canopy as part of MAR1 at import (like pull up seat belts etc). The dutch > have done engineering and ALL dutch gliders have same. I do know Paul > Mathews had same fitted to one of his gliders when flying around Gulcong and > > said it is easy to get to use. > > Just a thought...........Ian McPhee > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Parncutt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'" > <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 9:19 PM > Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] RE: Another fatality > > > > Given the amount of incidents which have occurred with aerodrome perimeter > > fences especially in gliding, perhaps thought should be given to changing > > the design of these fences to make them more forgiving. > > Possibilities may include some sort of weak link system in each wire or > > perhaps sprung sections which may allow the canopy to deflect the wire. > > > > I'm sure there is enough ingenuity within the gliding movement to come up > > with some ideas to make these fences safer whilst still performing their > > function. > > > > John Parncutt > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce > > Taylor > > Sent: Monday, 26 February 2007 8:24 PM > > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] RE: Another fatality > > > > Good call, Mitch. > > > > The only addition I would like to make is that it seems the > > pilot/instructor > > had very few options... he was released at low altitude without enough > > energy to clear the fence, and (thinking through the evidence I have > > heard) > > with a downburst happening somewhere behind him. This leaves him with an > > increasing tailwind, and if he was touching down somewhere near the stall, > > he is approaching the fence with no control response, in a > > nosewheel-equipped glider. He DID try to groundloop, with no response. > > > > Very tough for all, especially the instructor. > > > > BT. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mitchell Preston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." > > <[email protected]> > > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 6:48 PM > > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] RE: Another fatality > > > > > >> Fair comment, Ron, however in this case we should perhaps refrain from > >> any judgement (deliberate or otherwise) until a more suitable time. I > >> would like to offer my condolences to the family of the student and let > >> my good friends at LKSC know that they are in my thoughts as they deal > >> with the aftermath of this accident. > >> > >> Mitch. > >> > >> > >> On 25/02/2007, at 9:05 PM, Ron Sanders wrote: > >> > >>> Even if you have only got five feet to run before the fence YOU MUST > >>> initiate a ground loop. > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Aus-soaring mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> To check or change subscription details, visit: > >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > [email protected] > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > [email protected] > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/703 - Release Date: 2/26/2007 > > 2:56 PM > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
