Dave
Get a V10 Toureg, save the planet, save aluminium from not needing 2 extra
pistons, and feel good about yourself ..... all at the same time.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Boulter-Internode
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Climate change.
Thinking of buying a V12 Turbo Diesel F100 Truck to tow the new motor
glider, that should help!
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:aus-soaring-
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Loxton
>> Sent: Tuesday, 4 December 2007 10:57 AM
>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Climate change.
>>
>> The argument on weather climate change is real or not is irrelevant.
>> we have no way to know for sure, and really arguing about it is just
>> wasting time we may not have. We DO have control over our actions and
>> weather or not we choose to do something about it. At the end of the
>> day there are 4 possible outcomes to this whole debate:
>>
>> 1) we act, it was not real. we waist time and money, hit a moderate
>> recession, have some good new tech, but we survive in more or less our
>> current form and live on.
>> 2) we act, it WAS real, similar to 1 above, but we averted disaster
>> 3) we dont act, it was not real - yippee for us, we got lucky
>> (although since fossil fuels are finite in quantity, more likely to be
>> as above )
>> 4) we dont act, it WAS real - say even the conservative estimates
>> eventuate, billions of people die, billions more are short of food and
>> water, world economies fall, sea levels rise, drouts, floods, mass
>> extension, world wars, remnants of superpowers fighting over dwindling
>> land and resources. etc. - life will go on, humans will probably
>> survive, but it would be a very different world.....
>>
>> so since we cant know for sure weather climate change is real or not,
>> not 100%, the only argument worth having is weather or not to act on
>> the possibility. in the end it is an exercise in risk management.
>> given the enormous consequence on not acting, and Climate change
>> turning out to be real (4 above) then the ONLY sensible choice is to
>> ACT!!!!!!
>>
>> the only thing we can know for sure is that over the next century
>> there will be some very big changes in the world, and in the way we
>> all live. It is up to all of us to make these transitions as smooth as
>> possible. Understand the problems, look at the risks, for god sake
>> open your eyes, pull your head out of the sand and make the RIGHT
>> choice.
>>
>> NOW CAN WE GET BACK TO GLIDING :-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> (part of the generation who will see what will happen, and has to
>> survive in it, please leave us a liveable world)
>>
>>
>> On 04/12/2007, at 10:21 AM, Mark Newton wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > On 04/12/2007, at 9:19 AM, Mike Borgelt wrote:
>> >
>> >> Did you actually read the paper?
>> >
>> > Absolutely yes. And you're not the first person to refer me
>> > to it either.
>> >
>> >> There's a very short summary here by David Evans, who used to be a
>> >> believer and even made his living at it
>> >> http://icecap.us/images/uploads/Evans-CO2DoesNotCauseGW.pdf
>> >
>> > That's nice. He even cites Monckton, which is lovingly self-
>> > referential.
>> >
>> >> Just look at the data.
>> >
>> > Here's the thing, Mike:
>> >
>> > Generally speaking, the scientists who are looking at this stuff,
>> > who are often quite a bit smarter than I am, are "just look[ing]
>> > at the data."
>> >
>> > As absurd as it may sound, some of them are smarter than you too.
>> > :-)
>> >
>> > While challenging each other to "just look at the data," they
>> > can't agree. In any group of highly respected climate scientists,
>> > half of them will be dead wrong, and history will plot out their
>> > legacy in the same way that it records flogiston and ether. They're
>> > all looking at different bits of the data, and they're all coming
>> > up with frankly absurd computational models to predict climactic
>> > behaviour. Until one of them can accurately predict what's going
>> > to happen more than 5 years ahead, _none_ of them are worth
>> > listening to.
>> >
>> > So here's my take: Acknowledging that I'm not smart enough to
>> > be authoritative on this, I'm not drawing conclusions and am
>> > keeping an open mind. That is, after all, what's required of
>> > a skeptical enquirer, right?
>> >
>> > Another thing that's required of a skeptical enquirer is
>> > to question sources, and that's what I've done with Monckton.
>> >
>> > If _you_ were a proper skeptic, you'd be doing the same, just
>> > like I'm guessing you do with Mann's hockey stick and the IPCC,
>> > and comparing sea level rise predictions with observed sea
>> > levels. It strikes me that by only criticising the positions
>> > you disagree with, you've probably formed some conclusions which
>> > the science is not yet capable of supporting.
>> >
>> > Monckton's record paints him as someone who's unbalanced enough to
>> > carry a taint even without considering the funding he receives
>> > from the petrochemical industry. If the science supporting your
>> > position is anywhere near as strong as you claim it is, you should
>> > be able to find a better advocate than him.
>> >
>> > That is all. Carry on.
>> >
>> > - mark
>> >
>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > I tried an internal modem, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > but it hurt when I walked. Mark Newton
>> > ----- Voice: +61-4-1620-2223 ------------- Fax: +61-8-82231777 -----
>> >
>> >
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