I saw the word 'Cloud' in that one - we must be getting closer to talking
about Gliding again.



On Dec 5, 2007 1:29 AM, Mike Cleaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> At 02:35 5/12/2007, you wrote:
>
> > > There is "Climate Change", there always has been "Climate Change".
> > > there was an Ice Age and the earth is going through a warming cycle
> > > that has been going on since the last Ice Age.  (Geoff, as
> > recently as 1982 scientists thought we were heading for a new ice
> > age caused by global cooling!)
> >
> >.....  and the  Earth continues to warm up (by insolation)...
> >
> >..... until it is hit by a big meteor which throws dirt into the air
> blocking
> >insolation and causing cooling (as in the last ice age). This wipes out
> >many species.
>
> Not that simple, even for a neonatologist. But there is one simple
> concept nobody has raised here yet (or in the popular science
> debates). That was the old paradigm.
>
> Left to its own devices, the earth stays in rough balance by
> radiating out the energy it receives. However, (1) it takes time to
> achieve equlibrium; (2) the rate of radiation is less if there is
> more cloud or more greenhouse gases to trap the heat by re-reflecting
> it back to earth; (3) the rate of sunlight (energy) getting in
> depends on the amount of cloud reflecting it back and the amount of
> particulates stopping the sunlight getting to the surface and heating
> the atmosphere.
>
> HOWEVER, this assumes that no extra heat (energy) is released at the
> surface. It is patently obvious that humans are now using energy at
> such a rate as to affect the overall balance, and all energy
> eventually defaults to heat - hence the earth's surface warms as the
> waste product energy accumulates until it can be re-radiated to space
> as long-wave radiation. Unlike other historical events, we cannot
> tell yet if that effect is self-correcting.
>
> The only way to radiate more energy (as a very rough approximation to
> a black-body radiator) is to radiate it from a hotter source - hence
> the planet MUST warm up if it is to radiate the excess energy being
> generated at the surface.
>
> If we suspect that this is an undesirable situation, we must STOP
> RELEASING SO MUCH ENERGY. Ideally we will do this by being more
> efficient and not wasting it, but the fact remains that in the end it
> will raise the temperature ON AVERAGE. This is where Australia, as a
> amall buttechnologically smart country, can help significantly BY
> REDUCING WASTING ENERGY AND MAKING THE TECHNOLOGY AVAILABLE TO ALL.
>
> In the long term, we must also reduce the global human population if
> we are to reduce the number of sources of waste. Risk managers
> consider number of fatalities against frequency to decide if a risk
> is unacceptable - a single cause killing 1000 people at the same time
> is not tolerable more than once in about 10 years. By extrapolation,
> killing 5 billion people once in 5 billion years is also intolerable
> - so half the planet's population being killed by a nearby star going
> supernova once in the current age of the universe is intolerable. The
> only factor we have any control over (apart from rewriting what
> probability we accept) is to reduce the global population! (not in
> the way one loony candidate party at the recent election has
> proposed, either - by a solution akin to myxo or calici virus for
> rabbit control, or relying on war and famine as we did in past
> generations).
>
> The problem goes deeper than just greenhouse gas emissions - it is
> ENERGY USAGE at a rate beyond our capacity to maintain the
> environment in a range where we KNOW FOR SURE that we can survive it,
> and which probably takes us outside the range of geological history
> caused by variations in solar output in any time-scale we can
> reliably infer from the up-front evidence.
>
> CO2 is only a minor part of the overall equation, but it is the
> political flavour of the year.
>
> Wombat
>
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