G'day All, DDSC was having a simular discussion a month or so ago. This was my reply to them.. G'day All, It seems as though your in a sticky situation, and that it certainly wont be easy to make a decision online but certainly a good way to get idea's and opinions thrown around to get everyone thinking. A discussion at the next meeting would be the best way to start the official ball rolling, and like Jeremy said - it will take time. After all, it is CASA were talking about! If your looking for the official document relating to Jeremy's quotes it can be found here: http://www.airservices.gov.au/publications/current/aip/enr/5_5_1-10.pdf; I haven't bothered looking for the Jeppesen Airways Manual reference, as it simply says the same thing. As you know, I spend a lot of my time in the sky and now with a lot of different people. Obviously gliding gets mentioned in the cockpit, then after a while we get chatting about our own operations (REX) in regards to safety with the gliders around our flight routes (eg, SYD-DUbbo-Broken Hill-DU-SY; SY-Parkes-SY; SY-Orange-SY; SY-Bathurst-SY; etc). I've just started discussions with our Chief Pilot to make these routes safer for all parties involved. When chatting to other commercial pilots (not just in REX), their first response is: Why aren't they on Area!? I reply with a couple comments, generally because we're up there to have fun with our mates and like a good chin wag; because many glider pilots don't even know what their area frequency is!; and when we're generally above CTAF we're onto our assigned gliding frequencies for our safety. I think a good start would be to apply to CASA (or who ever deals with this) to put a 'danger area' around your training area with vertical limits of SFC-12500'***. This is signified on charts by a THICK RED boundary. It is a great way to get pilots to stop staring into oblivion, and actually LOOK OUT! I know I used to fly into busy GA training area's after an IFR flight, and think - better LOOK OUT (more purposely than normal) as there might be some 'goober' lurking around here that isn't talking to me on the radio! Or in a gliding point of view for GA pilots (imagine a guy/girl pulling their hair out), 'jeeeeezus, I'm going to avoid that area, gliders/pilots freak me out!' Why do they often say the above? Often because glider pilots don't seem to talk back to them. Why? Number of things I guess, not on Area (where the pilot expects to talk to them, as their not really aware of the actual frequencies that we use), not on CTAF, or too scared that they may something wrong. I know DDSC and KRY are very good in this way, but this is what pilots generally think. *** in the details section of the ERSA, you'd have to make note of your local rules. ie, I assume it'd be. 3000-12500, 122.x. Operations Sat and Sun + public holidays (as the assumption). This way, pilots would monitor 122.x above 3000, and 126.7 (or your new frequency) below 3000. When I was operating out of DDSC for my short period of time, I'd call Area on 121.2. "BNE Centre, Glider Golf Whisky Romeo with Details"; They'd reply "GWR go ahead"; My reply, "GWR and approx 5 other gliders will be operating from Dalby, Chinchilla, Bunya Towers, Dalby from time xxxx to xxxx (say local if you couldn't be bothered working out UTC time) up to heights of 7000'. We can be contacted on 122.x." With the above, BNE Centre can give advice to IFR aircraft operating/descending into xx area so that they can be on the lookout and contact us if need be. They didn't seem to mind, though if I sensed that they were busy I'd leave the call until later in the flight. Maybe the club could fax/e-mail some basic details on to BNE Centre before the first XC launch of the day to let them know the general task area, operating height and frequency for the day?? Roberts post on a dual frequency radio has both its positives and negatives. My old man has got a XComm for his V2, I think he likes it though not sure how often he actually uses it full capabilities. The positives are obviously listening to two frequencies, but this only works when no one is talking on the other frequency. It also makes it hard to distinguish what frequency Fred is talking to you on if your not looking at the comm before replying. REX and other airlines operate dual comms as standard. When one of the crew has to talk to 'SYD OPS' or listen to the weather on comm2 for instance, if we forget to turn down the active frequency (BN/ML CEN or CTAF) after asking the other pilot to monitor that freq while I'm away, then it is VERY distracting to hear the other radio station over the top. Often I have to ask that person to repeat what they said (or listen to the weather for the second time). Think about this when it's busy and you miss a crucial radio call FOR YOU! If you were to operate on Area for a day, you'd go insane listening to all the crap that get said, and you'd feel really guilty (maybe harassed by other pilots and maybe centre) for constantly calling your mate over to a climb or finding out where he/she is. (last comment for 98% of the glider pilots in Aus who don't have a dual radio). So basically this isn't practice for us glider pilots, but at the same time it does say in the AIP "Except when operationally required to maintain communications on a discrete frequency listed above, glider pilots are expected to listen out on the area VHF and announce if in potential conflict."... So all in all, not sure if there is an answer to your drama's. But hopefully this e-mail gave you some background information on the other side of the coin. I do think though, that applying for a 'danger area' would be a great start! Any questions, fire away. I'd be more than happy to put my 2cents in for you all. RegardsWPP Definition: Danger or alert areas usually relate to mining or quarrying sites, and to special aviation activities such as fixed training areas or aerobatic areas; it may be prudent to avoid such areas, but there is no restriction on entry. Other special use areas, for example those for hang-gliding or radio-controlled model aircraft flying, are also symbolically marked on aerial charts, as a warning device, but there are no details available in any publication. Similarly mines and quarries marked on charts, but not within a danger area, should only be over flown at a safe height to avoid blasting debris. 2008/10/26 PCS2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I have just had a week out at Darling Downs, Jondaryan Qld. (DDSC) on 126.7. Even during the week the noise was excessive with what sounds like open mikes almost continually. Not being a radio boffin, is this caused by transmissions from very far away? I flew yesterday Saturday and it just got worse with over transmission almost continuously and transmissions from Tangalooma (Moreton Bay) to Rainbow Beach being heard. 126.7 was almost useless at times, especially when the fleet was being launched at DDSC. Once on Xcountry, we changed to 122.7 which was bliss compared but I was still monitoring 126.7 on my hand held and it got better later on in the day but still "open mikes". On 122.7, there were two presumably glider pilots chatting without call signs, unlike our DDSC pilots who were very brief and pertinent. As RAPAC rep for Gliding Qld. and RAPAC South Qld, please give me some feed back for the next meeting on Nov. 19th. PeterS_______________________________________________Aus-soaring mailing [EMAIL PROTECTED] check or change subscription details, visit:http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _________________________________________________________________
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