Adam,
I would have to trawl through a heap of operational documents (not
something I want to do on a Friday evening) but I think you will find that
anyone transmitting on any airways frequencies legally is requires to hold a
Radio Operators License - this is not required on dedicated glider
frequencies
and not many glider pilots hold the qualification.
I also find that many of the Commercial Pilots I work with are intolerant of
aviation activities other than there own. Almost everyone I work with either
holds or has
held a CPL/ATPL - job prerequisite these days
SDF
_____
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam
Woolley
Sent: Friday, 31 October 2008 11:16 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] 126.7 congestion
G'day All,
DDSC was having a simular discussion a month or so ago. This was my reply
to them..
G'day All,
It seems as though your in a sticky situation, and that it certainly wont be
easy to make a decision online but certainly a good way to get idea's and
opinions thrown around to get everyone thinking. A discussion at the next
meeting would be the best way to start the official ball rolling, and like
Jeremy said - it will take time. After all, it is CASA were talking about!
If your looking for the official document relating to Jeremy's quotes it can
be found here:
http://www.airservices.gov.au/publications/current/aip/enr/5_5_1-10.pdf; I
haven't bothered looking for the Jeppesen Airways Manual reference, as it
simply says the same thing.
As you know, I spend a lot of my time in the sky and now with a lot of
different people. Obviously gliding gets mentioned in the cockpit, then
after a while we get chatting about our own operations (REX) in regards to
safety with the gliders around our flight routes (eg, SYD-DUbbo-Broken
Hill-DU-SY; SY-Parkes-SY; SY-Orange-SY; SY-Bathurst-SY; etc). I've just
started discussions with our Chief Pilot to make these routes safer for all
parties involved. When chatting to other commercial pilots (not just in
REX), their first response is: Why aren't they on Area!? I reply with a
couple comments, generally because we're up there to have fun with our mates
and like a good chin wag; because many glider pilots don't even know what
their area frequency is!; and when we're generally above CTAF we're onto our
assigned gliding frequencies for our safety.
I think a good start would be to apply to CASA (or who ever deals with this)
to put a 'danger area' around your training area with vertical limits of
SFC-12500'***. This is signified on charts by a THICK RED boundary. It is
a great way to get pilots to stop staring into oblivion, and actually LOOK
OUT! I know I used to fly into busy GA training area's after an IFR flight,
and think - better LOOK OUT (more purposely than normal) as there might be
some 'goober' lurking around here that isn't talking to me on the radio! Or
in a gliding point of view for GA pilots (imagine a guy/girl pulling their
hair out), 'jeeeeezus, I'm going to avoid that area, gliders/pilots freak me
out!'
Why do they often say the above? Often because glider pilots don't seem to
talk back to them. Why? Number of things I guess, not on Area (where the
pilot expects to talk to them, as their not really aware of the actual
frequencies that we use), not on CTAF, or too scared that they may something
wrong. I know DDSC and KRY are very good in this way, but this is what
pilots generally think.
*** in the details section of the ERSA, you'd have to make note of your
local rules. ie, I assume it'd be. 3000-12500, 122.x. Operations Sat and
Sun + public holidays (as the assumption). This way, pilots would monitor
122.x above 3000, and 126.7 (or your new frequency) below 3000.
When I was operating out of DDSC for my short period of time, I'd call Area
on 121.2. "BNE Centre, Glider Golf Whisky Romeo with Details"; They'd
reply "GWR go ahead"; My reply, "GWR and approx 5 other gliders will be
operating from Dalby, Chinchilla, Bunya Towers, Dalby from time xxxx to xxxx
(say local if you couldn't be bothered working out UTC time) up to heights
of 7000'. We can be contacted on 122.x."
With the above, BNE Centre can give advice to IFR aircraft
operating/descending into xx area so that they can be on the lookout and
contact us if need be. They didn't seem to mind, though if I sensed that
they were busy I'd leave the call until later in the flight. Maybe the club
could fax/e-mail some basic details on to BNE Centre before the first XC
launch of the day to let them know the general task area, operating height
and frequency for the day??
Roberts post on a dual frequency radio has both its positives and negatives.
My old man has got a XComm for his V2, I think he likes it though not sure
how often he actually uses it full capabilities. The positives are
obviously listening to two frequencies, but this only works when no one is
talking on the other frequency. It also makes it hard to distinguish what
frequency Fred is talking to you on if your not looking at the comm before
replying. REX and other airlines operate dual comms as standard. When one
of the crew has to talk to 'SYD OPS' or listen to the weather on comm2 for
instance, if we forget to turn down the active frequency (BN/ML CEN or CTAF)
after asking the other pilot to monitor that freq while I'm away, then it is
VERY distracting to hear the other radio station over the top. Often I have
to ask that person to repeat what they said (or listen to the weather for
the second time). Think about this when it's busy and you miss a crucial
radio call FOR YOU!
If you were to operate on Area for a day, you'd go insane listening to all
the crap that get said, and you'd feel really guilty (maybe harassed by
other pilots and maybe centre) for constantly calling your mate over to a
climb or finding out where he/she is. (last comment for 98% of the glider
pilots in Aus who don't have a dual radio). So basically this isn't practice
for us glider pilots, but at the same time it does say in the AIP "Except
when operationally required to maintain communications on a discrete
frequency listed above, glider pilots are expected to listen out on the area
VHF and announce if in potential conflict."...
So all in all, not sure if there is an answer to your drama's. But
hopefully this e-mail gave you some background information on the other side
of the coin. I do think though, that applying for a 'danger area' would be
a great start!
Any questions, fire away. I'd be more than happy to put my 2cents in for
you all.
Regards
WPP
Definition: Danger or alert areas usually relate to mining or quarrying
sites, and to special aviation activities such as fixed training areas or
aerobatic areas; it may be prudent to avoid such areas, but there is no
restriction on entry. Other special use areas, for example those for
hang-gliding or radio-controlled model aircraft flying, are also
symbolically marked on aerial charts, as a warning device, but there are no
details available in any publication. Similarly mines and quarries marked on
charts, but not within a danger area, should only be over flown at a safe
height to avoid blasting debris.
2008/10/26 PCS2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I have just had a week out at Darling Downs, Jondaryan Qld. (DDSC) on 126.7.
Even during the week the noise was excessive with what sounds like open
mikes almost continually. Not being a radio boffin, is this caused by
transmissions from very far away?
I flew yesterday Saturday and it just got worse with over transmission
almost continuously and transmissions from Tangalooma (Moreton Bay) to
Rainbow Beach being heard. 126.7 was almost useless at times, especially
when the fleet was being launched at DDSC. Once on Xcountry, we changed to
122.7 which was bliss compared but I was still monitoring 126.7 on my hand
held and it got better later on in the day but still "open mikes".
On 122.7, there were two presumably glider pilots chatting without call
signs, unlike our DDSC pilots who were very brief and pertinent.
As RAPAC rep for Gliding Qld. and RAPAC South Qld, please give me some feed
back for the next meeting on Nov. 19th.
PeterS
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