Methinks there is some false logic in that argument. A counter argument is that the aviation medical system has kept people out of the skies that shouldn't be flying due to medical reasons . (that is, the medicals are filtering out those who are unfit to fly and hence that the cause of incidents due to medical causes is low, 5 out of 800 = 0.625%).
Saying that 1% is different to 0.5% is meaningless without confidence intervals, and suffers from the problem of rare events being compared. If there were no medicals, the numbers of accidents do the medical causes would be higher. Regards Michael -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] on behalf of Mike Borgelt Sent: Fri 10/11/2013 4:10 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Medicals No, the lack of value of aviation medicals has been demonstrated by long pragmatic and statistical experience. I don't have the URL to hand but one study in the US was that medical conditions for powered aircraft pilots were around 1% of accident causes. Fortunately they had a large body of experience with glider and balloon pilots who self certify and the medical rate of accident causes was 0.5% or so amongst them. The BGA did a study many years ago of 800 glider accidents in the UK. IIRC about 5 may have had a medical component which would seem to be in accordance with the US experience. Of those, again IIRC, one was a medical condition that wouldn't be picked up in a PPL medical, two had PPLs and one was a serving military officer who had more frequent medicals of a higher stringency than a PPL medical. Even CASA recognised this in writing in a discussion paper in 2002 about the proposed Recreational Pilot's Licence. They proposed the same medical standard as a State driver's Licence (very little, looking at what drives). They specifically said some in the aviation industry might be uncomfortable with this but that the stats were clear that formal medicals did nothing for safety. This was a welcome attitude in the regulator - actual evidence based rule making. Of course the cretins in the GFA sent a couple of people (Meertens and Hall) along to the Minister to kill this proposal for gliding, along with the collusion of Paul Middleton of the RAAus. One of the more notable acts of bastardry in Australian aviation which has a long history of such. Mike At 05:41 PM 11/10/2013, you wrote: >Content-class: urn:content-classes:message >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CEC655.49080C07" > >Hi All, > >To self declare is hardly onerous. > >If you have any of the conditions that make you >ineligible to self declare, then get an Australian Medical Certificate. > >I now await the bun-fight regarding the value of >aviation medicals and whether they have really >made the skies safer, using the argument that >medicals are costly and someone knows somebody >that had a medically incapacitating event just >after they had passed their medical etc.. > >Would the same argument work regarding glider >maintenance, saying that form 2 are not >worthwhile because there have been instances >where gliders have come to grief after passing their form 2 etc. > >Doctor's hat on > >Michael > >================================================== >Dr. Michael Texler M.B. B.S. M.D.(Adel) F.R.C.P.A. >Consultant Anatomical Pathologist >c/- Department of Histopathology, >PathWest, B Block, Level 5, >Fremantle Hospital, Alma Sreet, Fremantle 6160, WA, Australia >Ph: +61 (0)8 9431 2681 >Email: [email protected] > > >---------- >From: [email protected] >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Matt Gage >Sent: Friday, 11 October 2013 14:52 >To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. >Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Medicals > >However, the crazy situation is that if a US >pilot holds a class 2 medical, they can fly here >using that unless they gain Australian >citizenship, at which time they have to suddenly >self certify or get an Australian class 2 > >Or an Australian who has lived overseas for many >years is unable to use their class 2 on a brief holiday here > >Looks like we have badly thought through regs, >or possibly the interpretations on the web site >are too simplistic. I hope it's the latter > >Matt > >On 11 Oct 2013, at 17:25, "Christopher Thorpe" ><<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote: >>An Australian flying on an Australian pilot >>certificate who is ineligible to self-declare >>their medical status must hold an Australian >>Medical Certificate. This is the case even if >>an Australian also holds citizenship of another country. >> >>If the person holds dual citizenship of >>countries other than Australia and they are >>ineligible to self-declare, then they will need >>to provide a Medical certificate issued by the >>State that issued their Pilot's Licence. >> >> >> >>Christopher Thorpe >> >> >>From: >><mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] >> >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Sanders >>Sent: Friday, 11 October 2013 4:30 PM >>To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. >>Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Medicals >> >>What about those who hold dual citizenship?? >> >> >> >>On 10 October 2013 21:53, Christopher Thorpe >><<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote: >>The Q&A means exactly what it says. An >>AUSTRALIAN pilot must have an AUSTRALIAN Medical Certificate. >> >>I'm not sure how this morphed into the >>requirements for foreign pilots, but there is a >>separate page dedicated to foreign pilots at the following link:- >><http://www.glidingaustralia.org/GFA-Ops/foreignpilots.html>http://www.glidingaustralia.org/GFA-Ops/foreignpilots.html >> >>Christopher Thorpe >> >> >>From: >><mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] >> >>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of jim crowhurst >>Sent: Thursday, 10 October 2013 9:37 PM >>To: aus soaring >>Subject: [Aus-soaring] Medicals >> >>I have just been reading the medicals section >>of the OPS part of the GFA website and was >>looking at the FAQ. With respect to overseas pilots, I am confused.... >> >>I am an Australian Citizen but hold a Class >>1/Class 2 Medical Certificate issued overseas. >>Can I use this to meet GFA's medical requirements? >> No. You must hold a Medical Certificate >> issued by an Australian Registered Doctor or DAME. >> >>This means that regardless of any medical >>obtained overseas, a visiting pilot on holiday >>MUST see an Australian doctor and get signed >>off if they have ever had any of the >>exclusions, even if they hold a class 1 or 2 >>medical in their country. Some of the >>conditions are quite common in the age group of >>pilots that visit Australia. Surely if they >>have been signed off in the UK or USA or >>Germany for example they would meet >>requirements here? Is there any reciprocal arrangement with certain countries? >> >>My concern is that Australia may lose out on >>overseas pilots coming to visit because of the >>medical requirements. Has this always been this >>way or are these new regulations? >> >>This is more stringent than EASA, and that's saying something! >> >>Can someone knowledgeable explain the rules for >>overseas pilots or is it simply that "if you >>can't self certify, see an Australian doctor" and hope they sign off? >> >>It's not exactly convenient....... >> >>thanks >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Aus-soaring mailing list >><mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] >>To check or change subscription details, visit: >><http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring>http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Aus-soaring mailing list >><mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] >>To check or change subscription details, visit: >><http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring>http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >_______________________________________________ >Aus-soaring mailing list >[email protected] >To check or change subscription details, visit: >http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
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