Hi, Just attempted to updated my Swiss Flarm this weekend and turned it into an expensive paperweight. Fortunately two well known members of WGC ( thanks again) pooled their combined knowledge and many hours later it became a semi useful part of the airframe again. Was about to scrap all electronics and install my cosim vario and make my own beeping noises??? It will be a sad day IMHO when we mandate any form of electronic device for all gliders as standard equipment. I appreciate their use for gliders and tugs ( I used to tow ) in comps etc but as the owner of some vintage gliders ( including my open cirrus) i challenge their relevance in all parts of our sport. I still believe we could help ourselves more by encouraging more anti collision marking ( read all the arguments) and keeping our heads out of the cockpit where they belong. Before you crucify me ( as happens occasionally here) please justify your comments with why you think i need a Flarm or equivalent in a vintage or training aircraft mostly operating in the CTAF. Soon we will be asked these questions as a body and i hope we answer wisely. I say again i support and understand the relevance in a comp situation for devices likes Flarms however we will need to make future decisions and rules for all the gliding community. Currently i probably couldn't operate at some local clubs due to an insistence an Flarms for all aircraft??????????? cheers Laurie GMO,GDW,GEF,GHJ,GTG
> From: [email protected] > Subject: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 138, Issue 25 > To: [email protected] > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 21:22:52 +1030 > > Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: FLARM update (Mike Borgelt) > 2. Easter Comp 2015 cancelled (Erich Wittstock) > 3. Re: Easter Comp 2015 cancelled (Ian Downes) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:47:29 +1000 > From: Mike Borgelt <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] FLARM update > To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > As a standalone device a Flarm is merely an expensive GPS data source. > > Flarm is a *system* and requires other devices > and compatibility between devices to function. > The usefulness also degrades rapidly as the > proportion of potential targets either is not > equipped or the unit isn't working or is non compatible. > > Analogies with parachutes aren't useful. There > are many parachute manufacturers and I'm not > aware that licence fees are being paid by the > others to one manufacturer and while there may > be airworthiness directives from time to time on a particular brand or type of > > parachute there aren't potential fleet wide problems every year. > > Not a problem until use is mandated as in contests or some clubs. > > The serious parts of aviation seem to go to lots > of trouble to maintain backwards compatibility. > i.e. continuing use of pressure altitude instead > of GPS altitude, Mode A transponders are > compatible with Mode C and mode S and ADSB co-exists with these on the same > > frequencies. Except in the USA where the > potential congestion means they have gone to > 978Mhz for ADSB for small aircraft and maintained > the Extended squitter transponder 1090 Mhz use > for large aircraft. That means ground stations > and being in range of one for the two > > sets of users to know about each other. Wonderful! > > TCAS as used in airliners also has the feature > that the system logic is known to the users and users are trained in it. > > A couple of years ago I analysed a mid air > between two gliders in Austria. Both Flarm > equipped and both Flarms were working. The pilots > frantically scanned and still failed to see each > other whereupon one turned left - right across > the other glider's flightpath and the > > collision occurred. Otherwise they'd have missed. > Fortunately both managed to land safely. > > Mike > > > > > > At 10:56 AM 16/03/2015, you wrote: > >Hi Tim, > >As you have reminded many in the past, - this is > >a Gliding Forum. Keep the politics and political comments out of it. > >Glenn > > > > > >On 14/03/2015 8:32 PM, Tim Shirley wrote: > >>Hi all, > >> > >>Flarms are standalone devices. They won't stop > >>working tomorrow, because there is nothing to > >>stop them working. A Flarm on V5 will see a > >>Flarm on V5 just the same for ever, so it is > >>probably better for the upgrade at a club, or > >>in an area where gliders often fly together, to > >>be co-ordinated. Making an instant change to > >>your own Flarm might simply disable yours :) > >> > >>Flarm is being 100% consistent in its policy, > >>and if that is irresponsible well then more > >>irresponsibility from Tony Abbott would be good > >>(if that is possible). They have NEVER > >>guaranteed that a major version upgrade is > >>backward compatible, in fact they have always > >>said that any backward compatibility between > >>major versions is coincidental. I make no > >>comment on the reasons or the necessity for this policy. > >> > >>There's nothing wrong with a Flarm, except for > >>the far too high expectations we have of it. > >> > >>Just look out the window - no version changes > >>required but make sure your specs are up to spec. > >> > >>Cheers > >> > >>Tim Shirley > >> > >>tra dire ? fare c' ? mezzo il mare > >>On 14/03/2015 6:54 PM, Matthew Scutter wrote: > >>>FYI: > >>>FLARM has now published it's latest update - v6. > >>>It's available here: > >>><http://flarm.com/support/firmware-updates/>http://flarm.com/support/firmware-updates/ > >>> > >>>The protocols in the current version (v5) and > >>>new version (v6) are supposedly totally > >>>incompatible, so please update your FLARMs > >>>before next flight or you won't be able to see pilots with the other > >>>version. > >>> > >>><soapbox opinion> I think it's very > >>>irresponsible of FLARM to publish a backwards > >>>incompatible upgrade like this. I am glad I am > >>>not flying in the Alps this weekend. </opinion> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>Aus-soaring mailing list > >>><mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] > >>>To check or change subscription details, visit: > >>><http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring>http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Aus-soaring mailing list > >><mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] > >>To check or change subscription details, visit: > >><http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring>http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Aus-soaring mailing list > >[email protected] > >To check or change subscription details, visit: > >http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of > quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 > www.borgeltinstruments.com > tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 > mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 > P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150316/97c4f1e8/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 19:19:16 +1100 > From: Erich Wittstock <[email protected]> > Subject: [Aus-soaring] Easter Comp 2015 cancelled > To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <caph3ingu9naf3qd9syosnusgocnb6z6dzxvcxnu_2bjsm0n...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Regretfully the decision has been made to cancel this years Easter > Competition that was to be held at Goondiwindi. The principal reason was > a lack of competitors. There were not sufficient entrants to justify the > commitment of the organisers, it was a risk financially and the small > numbers in the classes gave little competition. > > It is unfortunate however we felt it better to cancel rather than try to > run a sub-standard event. We will commence planning in a couple of months > for Easter 2016. Watch for our announcements. > > For those who have made the commitment to go to Goondiwindi this year all > is not totally lost for you. Warwick Club intend to fly all week and > offer non-competitive scored soaring for those interested. If you are > interested contact Warwick club www.warwickgliding.org.au > > > > Lindsay Mitchell > President > Queensland Gliding Assoc. Inc. > 0419 280 811 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150316/770436f8/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 21:52:43 +1100 > From: "Ian Downes" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Easter Comp 2015 cancelled > To: "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'" > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Good evening all > > > > Sorry to hear about the need to cancel this years event at Goondiwindi. > > > > As well as our friends at Warwick, Lake Keepit is also operating over the > Easter break as part of our full time operation. > > > > Whilst accommodation at the club and the adjoining caravan park is pretty > tight, we do have plenty of camping spots available. > > > > If you can't make Warwick we would love to see you at Keepit. > > > > Regards, > > > > Ian Downes. > > Lake Keepit Soaring Club > > > > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Erich > Wittstock > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 7:19 PM > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > Subject: [Aus-soaring] Easter Comp 2015 cancelled > > > > Regretfully the decision has been made to cancel this years Easter > Competition that was to be held at Goondiwindi. The principal reason was a > lack of competitors. There were not sufficient entrants to justify the > commitment of the organisers, it was a risk financially and the small numbers > in the classes gave little competition. > > > > It is unfortunate however we felt it better to cancel rather than try to run > a sub-standard event. We will commence planning in a couple of months for > Easter 2016. Watch for our announcements. > > > > For those who have made the commitment to go to Goondiwindi this year all is > not totally lost for you. Warwick Club intend to fly all week and offer > non-competitive scored soaring for those interested. If you are interested > contact Warwick club www.warwickgliding.org.au > <http://www.warwickgliding.org.au/> > > > > > > Lindsay Mitchell > President > Queensland Gliding Assoc. Inc. > > 0419 280 811 <tel:0419%20280%20811> > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150316/28148f67/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 138, Issue 25 > ********************************************
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