Hi David, Sorry for not replying before, but I wanted to check the CCA records before doing so. I confirm my belief that this Florencia daughter of Maria de Fraga Nunes is the same single mother Florencia that is your ancestor and my wife's. Can you check if you match my wife in FTDNA (her name is Alexandra Ribeiro)?
As to the clues regarding the identity of the father, I'm not into 200-year-old speculative history to be honest. Yes, the fact that her male children are all named 'José de Avelar' seems strange but it could be the father or someone that was kind to them for some other reason. However, looking at the fact that this was a single mother, daugther of another single mother, well... let's just say that her reputation might not have been the best. Did you manage to track more of this family records? João Ventura On Tuesday, 13 October 2015 23:58:01 UTC+2, Kawika322 wrote: > > Hi João, > > Thank you for all of the info as well. It is interesting how this family > line produced several connections. I also have a Family Finder match who is > descended from Maria Coelho (sister of Pedro Jose de Avelar (my direct > ancestor), and of Faustino Jose de Avelar. > > I was thinking, there has to be a connection with the name surname Avelar > that give a clue as to who the father of Pedro Jose, Faustino Jose, Monica > Coelho and Maria de Jesus are. Their mother, Florencia Rosa, doesn't seem > to be connected with the Avelar surname, so it is probably from the father. > There are a couple individuals who may be the father from the town, but > obviously I couldn't say for sure. > > In terms of tracking down Florencia, hopefully I will be able to find her > death record, as well as the death record of her mother Maria Coelho a.k.a. > Maria de Fraga Nunes. Would you guess that Maria de Fraga Nunes also came > over from Corvo to Flores? > > David > > On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 8:16:21 AM UTC-7, João Ventura wrote: >> >> David, >> >> This is all amazing information. Thanks a lot! You're related to wife as >> you can see in this relationship diagram from her to Florencia Rosa: >> >> >> http://venturas.org/familytree/relationship.php?ged=venturas&pid1=I5&pid2=I152 >> >> This is all I know about her (and her children): >> >> http://venturas.org/familytree/family.php?famid=F60&ged=venturas >> >> In this case I think that Maria de Fraga Nunes is also Maria Coelho. >> Women didn't really have surnames at the time, and they basically had their >> parents surnames or a religious one. >> >> Such a lousy time for the CCA site to be offline.. >> >> João C. Ventura >> http://tombo.pt/en >> >> On Tuesday, 6 October 2015 00:38:58 UTC+2, Kawika322 wrote: >>> >>> Eric, >>> >>> I found the death record for Maria de Jesus - one of the other children >>> of Florencia. It states that Florencia was a native of Corvo. Top right, >>> No. 12 >>> >>> >>> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-O-1860-1870/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-O-1860-1870_item1/P83.html >>> >>> I have look through quite a few records and yet to find death record of >>> Florencia, however I looked for her baptismal record (in Corvo) and the >>> only thing I could find was this record: Left side, top record. >>> >>> >>> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/COR-VC-VILANOVADOCORVO-B-1742-1779/COR-VC-VILANOVADOCORVO-B-1742-1779_item1/P121.html >>> >>> The mother is listed as Maria de Fraga Nunes, and in the other records >>> of Florencia's children, the mother of Florencia is listed as Maria Coelho, >>> so I am not sure if this is the right one. However, it seems from looking >>> through all the records, this is the only Florencia born on Corvo during >>> the appropriate time frame to a single mother, so it very well could be the >>> right one. >>> >>> If you could let me know what you think it would be greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> David >>> >>> On Thursday, October 1, 2015 at 9:17:06 AM UTC-7, luiznoia wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Here's a Santa Cruz, Flores marriage record of a Monica : >>>> >>>> >>>> João Pimentel Canhoto [f.º de Manuel Pimentel Canhoto e de Inácia >>>> Rosa] c. 1816.08.12 c. Mónica Coelho [n. Ponta Delgada, Santa Cruz das >>>> Flores, f.ª de pai incógnito e de Florência Rosa]. >>>> >>>> >>>> *If it's the same as in the baptism record, she'd be 20 yrs old* >>>> >>>> >>>> Here's Pedro Jose de Avelar's marriage record from Lajes das Flores: >>>> >>>> Pedro José de Avelar [n. Ponta Delgada, Santa Cruz das Flores, f.º de >>>> pai incógnito e de Florência Maria] c. 1813.02.18 c. Úrsula Joaquina >>>> [f.ª >>>> de pai incógnito e de Isabel Maria]. >>>> >>>> *If it was the same Pedro in the baptism record, he would be 20 years >>>> old* >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Here are marriage records of children of Florencia a single woman from >>>> Ponta Delgada, Flores >>>> >>>> Faustino José de Avelar [f.º de pai incógnito e de Florência, mulher >>>> solteira] c. 1813.10.31 c. Úrsula Maria [f.ª de Joaquim de Sousa e de >>>> Mariana de Jesus]. >>>> >>>> *I think this is the brother to Pedro Jose de Avelar* >>>> >>>> >>>> José Álvares [f.º de Manuel Álvares, j. d., e de Mariana de Jesus] c. >>>> 1813.11.25 c. Maria de Jesus [f.ª de pai incógnito e de Florência, >>>> mulher >>>> solteira]. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Eric Edgar >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 8:38 AM, luiznoia . <nobla...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think that tracking down Florencia's baptism record , obit, or the >>>>> marriage record of either Pedro or Monica could provide some >>>>> confirmation. >>>>> I tend to think it is the same mother. >>>>> >>>>> The 1792 to 1806 time frame would easily be in childbearing years. It >>>>> is also a time when many people left Corvo to settle in Flores. My >>>>> ancestor >>>>> , Joao Antonio Vieira was born to a single mother in Corvo in 1789 >>>>> >>>>> and settled in Cedros by 1810. >>>>> >>>>> Slavery had been abolished in Continental Portugal in 1761, in >>>>> Madeira in 1775, and by 1800 was on the wane in the Azores, being banned >>>>> in >>>>> 1830. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The priest in the Claudia record of 1806, and the Monica record of >>>>> 1796 is Domingo Bernardo da Sylvera >>>>> >>>>> The priest in the Pedro record of 1792 is Antonio Lourenco Coelho >>>>> >>>>> Eric Edgar >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 5:15 AM, Theresa Entin <ten...@fullchannel.net> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Depending on how common the name Florencia appears in the records >>>>>> during that time frame of 13 years would determine to me if it was the >>>>>> same >>>>>> person. If it appears as a very uncommon name, then I would say they >>>>>> were >>>>>> the same person. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, In order to make a good determination, I would check ten years >>>>>> prior to the birth of Pedro and 10 years after the birth of Claudia. >>>>>> >>>>>> Were you able to find the birth of Florencia, child of Maria in >>>>>> Corvo? If Maria was also a slave, that would help solving the puzzle. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 30, 2015, at 7:19 PM, Kawika322 <oldsc...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> There is a baptismal record I would like to have people's >>>>>> interpretation on. The record is for a Claudia born 7 Jul 1806 in Sao >>>>>> Pedro, Ponta Delgada, Flores. The mother is names Florencia, and I am >>>>>> trying to see if she may be the same Florencia who is the mother of my >>>>>> direct ancestor Pedro Jose Avellar who was born in 1793 in Ponta >>>>>> Delgada, >>>>>> Flores. I don't have any more info on Florencia such as a birth or death >>>>>> record, except that her mother's name is Maria Coelho from Corvo, which >>>>>> I >>>>>> got from the baptismal records of her children Pedro and Monica. >>>>>> >>>>>> If this is the same Florencia, her other children Pedro, and Monica, >>>>>> as well as a Faustino (whom I cannot find a birth record for) all had >>>>>> pai >>>>>> incognito fathers. >>>>>> >>>>>> This particular record may have additional information that could >>>>>> help me track down Florencia (if indeed it is the same woman). >>>>>> >>>>>> Any info or translation of what exactly the record says would be >>>>>> helpful. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is the record on the top right of the page: *Claudia*, no. 14: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813_item1/P209.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The links for the baptismal records for my direct ancestor Pedro Jose >>>>>> Avellar and his sister Monica Coelho (children of Florencia) are also >>>>>> below >>>>>> so that people can compare and see if they might be the same Florencia >>>>>> or >>>>>> not. >>>>>> >>>>>> *Pedro *(1793) : top right of page, no. 20: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813_item1/P146.html >>>>>> >>>>>> *Monica *(1796)*: *middle record, left side of page, no. 17 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813/FLR-SC-PONTADELGADA-B-1758-1813_item1/P158.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> David >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail >>>>>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. 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