> Well i am web technology journalist Oh! Now it's all starting to make sense.
> This does conflict with DRM quite heavily in that its impossible to hide > your data sources . I didn't say anything about DRM. You're right. It can always be hacked. Advertisers like to *give* video and audio away because it makes you buy their products. > AJAX is more than just HTML and Javascript , its whole different design > pattern . No, it's not. AJAX stands for "Asynchronous JavaScript + XML for web development". That sounds like (x)html and javascript to me. It's definitely not a design pattern. Factory, Decorator and Model View Controller are design patterns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_pattern_%28computer_science%29). AJAX is a collection of technologies that someone gave a fancy acronym to. > You should try it , its great fun . I did try it and I like it, for certain things. In fact, I really like it for data. Although, when I tried it the first time it was called XMLHttpRequest. That was years before someone gave it a fancy name; way below the radar of the "media". > sounds like quite a grim future to me , i'd prefer a more positive one > where developers and system designers realise their responsibily in > shaping the internet around open standards , just like the people before > them did. The internet without standards would be horrific . Find me an audio and video format that more than 90% of the people can see and I'll use it. Until then, Flash is my only choice. I've used SVG and it's fabulous, if you control the environment it's rolled out in and you can get everyone to download the (proprietary) Adobe plug-in. We were very successful rolling it out in a corporate environment. It's a wonderful technology but the plug-in is not anywhere close to being as ubiquitous as Flash. Deerpark is are only hope and it will still take years for the design tools to catch up. People like pretty interfaces. That's a fact. > 'a few shortcomings' is a very polite way of describing it , i prefer > the phrase 'a complete lack of support' . Straw man. Read this: http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/accessibility/features/flash/faq.html > There is definately a special > section in hell for people that do those scrolling blocks of text in > flash. I agree. However, we call those people "clients". > Ok , so i'm obviously looking at this from the backend and you seem to > be looking from the visual design perspective . Wrong again. Both Flash and AJAX are client side technologies. You are not talking about the back end at all. If you were, you would use words like oracle, sql, servlets, etc. Sorry if you trolled by this, but I can't stand this type of ignorance. Like SVG and AJAX, Flash is great for certain things and bad for others. But I can't stand the blanket statements that "all Flash is bad". Sorry for the rant. On 8/10/05, Amias Channer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:44:01 -0400 > Tim Scollick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I think that your non-Flash rant is biased and uninformed. > > Well i am web technology journalist so i suppose thats my mission ;-) > > > Why is it always Flash vs. HTML? Flash can supplement HTML and vice > > versa. They are good at different things. > > Because thats how the decision is made in my experience : > > client: we want to do this with our site , can we do it and what are the > options ? > me: Yes , probably , that looks like a either an AJAX or Flash job > because of ..... > > I know that is technically possible to share a datasource between a flash > interface > and an HTML one . The problem is that it is rare that people put the effort > into developing > alternative methods to display that data that they do into the flash site. > Especially given > the expense of developing flash applications. > > > The Medium is the Message. > The medium is the medium , the message is the content . > For me good web design is about making the right choice where to seperate > content > from delivery and presentation . Flash has never been good at that . > > > > What gets me is that it doesn't degrade , at all . you don't have > > > the plugin or even the latest version of the plugin you don't get > > > the site . > > > > That's what JavaScript detection is for. > > Thats not gracefull degredation , thats making 2 websites. > > > >Ever tried navigating a flash site with speech reader , braille pad , > > >set-top-box browser , text mode only or mobile phone ? > > > > This area admittedly has a few shortcomings, but Flash has support for > > Section 508, plug-ins for set top boxes and mobile phones. If you're > > doing text heavy sites in Flash, you've got bigger problems. > > 'a few shortcomings' is a very polite way of describing it , i prefer > the phrase 'a complete lack of support' . There is definately a special > section in hell for people that do those scrolling blocks of text in > flash. > > > Flash isn't for everything. Obviously, Amazon, Yahoo, eBay will use > > html. But trying doing marketing heavy, or real eLearning material > > with "standards". You don't get audio. You don't get video. You > > don't get designer friendly tools to animate and you don't get cross > > browser scripting. > > Ok , so i'm obviously looking at this from the backend and you seem to > be looking from the visual design perspective . You also seem more > comfortable with internet marketing than i do but then most people are. > > I'd take issue with the no audio or video thing , the standards based > approach allows a comfortable seperation of the data and gives more > flexibility to the user . > > This does conflict with DRM quite heavily in that its impossible to hide > your data sources . In response i would say that DRM is misguided and > just pisses people off . DRM cracking is a pretty much a sport these > days so its use is pointless. If you want it on the internet be prepared > for anybody to have access to it , er , end of . > > > I wish there were standard tools to do what Flash does (Firefox gave > > me hope, M$ squashed that hope with IE 7). But I think that, just > > like AJAX, "standards" will continue following in Flash's footsteps > > and Macromedia will stay one step ahead of the dhtml (or whatever > > acronym you're giving it today) world for a long time. Big sites with > > lots of content will continue to use html but the marketing dollars > > will continue to gravitate to Flash. > > sounds like quite a grim future to me , i'd prefer a more positive one > where developers and system designers realise their responsibily in > shaping the internet around open standards , just like the people before > them did. The internet without standards would be horrific . > > If you go with the standards they will flourish , if you don't use them > they wont . Saying that Microsoft will kill SVG with IE7 is making their > job easier , if people code stuff with standards compliant SVG and it > doesn't work in IE7 then people will switch browsers. I think you > should have more faith in your ability to effect change . > > > Go ahead and have your fun with html (actually, javascript). The > > clients I work with want to use Flash AND html. > > AJAX is more than just HTML and Javascript , its whole different design > pattern . AJAX is about streams of data , events handling and DOM population > instead of loading a new page for each response . You should try it , its > great fun . > This for me is the real reason people use flash , to avoid page refreshes. > > Sorry to anyone who feels trolled by this , its not my intention to annoy. > I just felt the need to respond to something be touted as fact that doesn't > seem so to me. > > Toodle-pip > Amias > - > Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please > visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. > Unofficial list archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ > - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
