"I still think he needs to update his own web site though, it looks like it's stuck in the 90s."
Do you mean useit.com? Agreed. I'm not saying Jakob has nothing to say but to paraphrase 80s ska combo Madness "don't watch that, watch this..!": http://www.informationarchitects.jp/ Now, whether information architects have got anything to say or not is besides the point. They look and feel like they're operating in 2007 which means they're instantly more relevant to anyone building a site today. Just my 2p. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher Woods Sent: 22 May 2007 18:15 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good Accessible design' I get the feeling Nielson is deliberately provocative for the sake of it sometimes (although if it sparks discussion in an area, then hell why not). I still think he needs to update his own web site though, it looks like it's stuck in the 90s. I think I've said that before, too :/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Lockwood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 22 May 2007 14:12 > To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk > Subject: Re: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good Accessible design' > > Something that every web developer capable of writing their own name > without using Dreamweaver or Frontpage has been banging on about for > the last 15 years. I don't see why Nielsen gets the credit for that > one. :-) > > Cheers, > > Rich. > > On 5/22/07, Brian Butterworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > 'Minimize the number of text fields in your interfaces down to the > > absolute minimum necessary. > > Minimize the number of click/keystrokes/gestures necessary to > > accomplish actions in your interface. > > Make your interface as responsive as possible - minimize > the latency > > of each and every action a user might take in your interface.' > > > > Something that Jakob Nielsen's been on about for about > fifteen years, > > methinks. > > > > www.useit.com > > > > > > Brian Butterworth > > www.ukfree.tv > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Simon Cobb > > > Sent: 22 May 2007 11:47 > > > To: Simon Cobb; backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk > > > Subject: RE: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good > Accessible design' > > > > > > This was an interesting article on UI design. > > > > > > http://tantek.com/log/2007/02.html#d19t1813 > > > > > > It's from February so you may have already seen it. I found it > > > referenced on the codinghorror blog which also has an article in > > > praise of javascript > > > (http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000857.html) > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Brian Butterworth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: 16 May 2007 17:05 > > > > To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk > > > > Subject: RE: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good > Accessible design' > > > > > > > > You may also like to try this site, it has access to Google, > > > > Microsoft, Ask and NASA mapping and satellite photos... > > > > > > > > http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=51.509979&lon=-0.226138&z=17.8&; > > > > r=0&src=msl > > > > > > > > It is easily "iframed" > > > > > > > > > > > > Brian Butterworth > > > > www.ukfree.tv > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason > > > > Cartwright > > > > > Sent: 16 May 2007 09:34 > > > > > To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk > > > > > Subject: RE: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good > > > Accessible design' > > > > > > > > > > Yes, javascript is required for the full, slick experience, > > > > obviously. > > > > > All parts of the site are still usable when JS is off (that I > > > > > can see), and seemingly entirely accessible via the keyboard. > > > > > > > > > > With JS on, the keys work in most browsers, although some > > > > require you > > > > > to have the map in focus. > > > > > > > > > > Of course Google Maps has a well documented API that could > > > > be used to > > > > > create uber-accessible versions for different needs - > > > > > http://www.google.com/apis/maps/ > > > > > > > > > > J > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of "~:'' > > > > > ????????????" > > > > > Sent: 15 May 2007 21:32 > > > > > To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk > > > > > Subject: Re: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good > > > Accessible design' > > > > > > > > > > Jason & Stephen, > > > > > > > > > > when javascript is disabled in Opera or Camino the message is: > > > > > Your web browser is not fully supported by Google Maps > > > > > > > > > > I wonder is the code IE7 specific? > > > > > none of the keys work for me on os x > > > > > > > > > > unless I'm missing something this hardly qualifies as > > > accessible... > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > Jonathan Chetwynd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 15 May 2007, at 16:57, Jason Cartwright wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Disable javascript. Everything works fine. > > > > > > > > > > J > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of "~:'' ????????????" > > > > > Sent: 15 May 2007 16:47 > > > > > To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk > > > > > Subject: Re: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good > > > Accessible design' > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > > > how does one use http://maps.google.com/ via the keyboard? > > > > > > > > > > cheers > > > > > > > > > > Jonathan Chetwynd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 15 May 2007, at 13:22, Richard Lockwood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > This particular rant seems to be about useability rather than > > > > > accessibility (although I appreciate the two are > often closely > > > > > related). Much as I often loathe Nielsen's writing - > > > > Jason's right, > > > > > it's often all about Nielsen more than it is about any > > > > actual problems > > > > > - in this case he's got a point. "Web 2.0" sites are often > > > > completely > > > > > unuseable - MySpace being a prime example, and Flickr > > > > (although it's > > > > > been a while since I tried to use it to post a few pics > > > and it may > > > > > well have improved) another. > > > > > > > > > > Google Maps however, I'd hold up as a prime example > of excellent > > > > > intuitive design and useability. > > > > > > > > > > Just as the phrase "Web 2.0" means different things to all > > > > people (I > > > > > avoid it if at all possible as I feel it just makes the > > > user sound > > > > > like a buzzword spouting bandwagon-jumper who hasn't a clue > > > > what he's > > > > > actually saying ;-) ), you can't tar all "Web 2.0" sites > > > with the > > > > > same brush. > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I've banged on far too long now, and this is what > > > > > Nielsen wants - people to discuss HIM HIM HIM!!! > Frankly, the > > > > > less > > > > I hear of > > > > > and from this tedious old bore, the happier I am. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > Rich. > > > > > > > > > > On 5/15/07, "~:'' ????????????" > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Jason & Gordon > > > > > > > > > > > > any good Accessible Web 2.0 websites you'd care to plug? > > > > > > or are you in a rush? > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > Jonathan Chetwynd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 15 May 2007, at 10:18, Jason Cartwright wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > This is all my personal opinion, and I entirely disagree. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr Nielsen has a history of spouting contrary opinions to > > > > > > court controversy and gain publicity for himself > and his company. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Web 2.0"[1] (for me at least) incorporates best practice > > > > > > methodologies of developing to standards (and the > > > consequences of > > > > > > this, such as progressive enhancement etc) and "trusting > > > > > users as co- > > > > > > developers" [2]. > > > > > > These core principals of "Web 2.0" encourage good design. > > > > > > > > > > > > As with any technology, "Web 2.0" will be misused - > > > it's not the > > > > > > technology's fault that this happens, it's the > > > > > designer/developer that > > > > > > fouled it up's problem. That doesn't look as good when > > > > > you're goading > > > > > > mainstream journos into writing about you though, does it? > > > > > > > > > > > > J > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] I've stuck all these in quotes, as I think "Web > 2.0" means > > > > > > different things to different people. > > > > > > [2] Tim O'Reilly > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ?:'' > > > > > > ???????????? > > > > > > Sent: 15 May 2007 08:48 > > > > > > To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk > > > > > > Subject: [backstage] Jakob Nielsen: Web 2.0 'neglecting > > > > good design' > > > > > > > > > > > > Jakob Nielsen: Web 2.0 'neglecting good design' > > > > > > > > > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6653119.stm > > > > > > > > > > > > seems to have copied my pitch for hackday ?:" > > > > > > > > > > > > has he been invited? > > > > > > > > > > > > was I? > > > > > > > > > > > > did anyone else have ideas or requirements for an > > > > > accessible SVG front > > > > > > end? > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > Jonathan Chetwynd > > > > > > Accessibility Consultant on Learning Disabilities and > > > the Internet > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.eas-i.co.uk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To > > > > unsubscribe, > > > > > > please visit > > > > > > > http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. > > > > > > Unofficial list archive: > > > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To > > > > unsubscribe, > > > > > > please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ > > > > > > mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: > http://www.mail- > > > > > > archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To > > > > unsubscribe, > > > > > > please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ > > > > > > mailing_list.html. 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