The Baha'i Studies Listserv Since when are we obligated to accept `Abdu'l-Baha's judgment on a matter of history? And history of another religion?
An unprovoked raid is an act of offense. Even in 7th century Arabia they had some rules of warfare. For instance, the no warfare during 4 months. But one of raids occurred in Rajab, a month in which warfare was forbidden. Yes, I know that Baha'u'llah chose a different way to make His Cause victorious. And islam and Muhammad chose jihad, a violent way. That's an unfortunate and quite inconvenient fact. But a fact nonetheless. Best regards, Iskandar Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®, typed with fat fingers on a small device. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Maneck <[email protected]> Sender: <[email protected]>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2010 23:12:47 To: Baha'i Studies<[email protected]> Reply-To: "Baha'i Studies" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Stealth Jihad The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> > `Abdu'l-Baha's comments in SAQ are for apologetic purposes, Susan. For a >> > Christian audience. >> >> So you don't believe He was telling the truth? > > He was telling the truth as He knew it. It was His information at the time. First you are trying to argue He said what He did because He was talking to a Christian audience. Now you say it was because He was misinformed. Abdu'l-Baha lived all His life in the Islamic World. Where exactly do you think He got this misinformation? > > Are you saying that Muhammad did not order a series of raids on civilian > caravans? Some half a dozen raids or so? They never happened? I said nothing of the sort. What I am saying is that if 'Abdu'l-Baha judges those raids to have been for defensive reasons, I accept His judgment. > > They were still offensive in nature. Not according to Abdu'l-Baha's definition. Remember, we are not talking about the > major battles. We are talking about a series of raids, on trading caravans. > Why lie in ambush and attack a caravan of traders? Because they got your stuff? Why not openly declare a > war? To my knowledge there was no such thing as formal declarations of war in 7th century Arabia. This is what is called an anachronism. > Baha'u'llah was born and was raised in a Muslim society and He and His > followers were heavily persecuted too. Why didn't He order any raids? Because that is not the way He chose to make His Cause victorious. > Baha'u'llah doesn't say it was Divine Justice. He says He felt that Muhammad > had to do it. No, He says it was decreed by God. Even if it was Divine Justice, it was for that particular time > and place. Of course. What Muslims are doing is saying that Islam and the sunnah of > Muhammad (i.e. what he did, and his raids and battles and warfare and jihad, > etc.) is eternal and forever. Some do. Most don't. >> Not the issue, and you know it. > > > That definitely is the issue. > If there was no violence in Islam, there would have been no need for Him to > abrogate and abolish it. No one said there was no violence. There was violence in Islam, there was violence in Christianity, there was violence in Judaism. What does that prove? __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-549236-2080565.74e62800577573ae18970b78170ff...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [email protected] Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[email protected] Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[email protected] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-549243-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [email protected] Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[email protected] Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]
