Dear Hugh, The fact that we all carry benign strains of E. coli in our guts, and are colonized therewith shortly after birth, does not mean that there are not virulent strains of E. coli from animal sources that we need to be concerned about.
The E. coli 0157:H7 issue is covered in a number of places; one recent paper that is interesting is: http://www.fass.org/fass01/pdfs/Callaway.pdf "The infectious dose is indicative of the virulence of pathogenic bacteria, and E. coli O157:H7 has an extremely low infectious dose. In one outbreak the contamination level of E. coli O157:H7 in uncooked hamburger meat was less than 700 cells/patty and some victims ingested very little of the (improperly) cooked meat (Griffin, 1998)." The Walkerton water outbreak here in Canada underscored the manure problem associated with 0157:H7: http://www.med.uwo.ca/ecosystemhealth/education/casestudies/walkertonmed.htm Now, Hugh, I am willing to accept that BD folks as a group are at low risk of having and spreading 0157 around. But, the NOSB has to deal with a larger universe of people than that, with composts coming from feedlot animals, and with an influx of newbies who may or may not know their excrement from their waxy shoe protectant, if you catch my reference... Compost tea is new. By that I mean compost tea as Elaine defines it, aerobically amplified and nutrient added. Whatever we should say about the Bess study, she showed that you can grow E. coli in a compost tea environment. For the most part E. coli is simply an indicator for the fate of other pathogens, chosen for its ease of monitoring, but in its 0157 form (and a few others) it is a potent pathogen in its own right, and at very low infective doses. The majority of 0157 outbreaks have been meat related, but several have also occured in salad materials, fruit juices, and sprouts. So, concern that 0157 might pass into compost tea through compost and into the food supply through application of tea and retention on produce surfaces is not absurd. It is reasonable, and a small amount of precautionary activity can ensure that we develop this exciting new tool in agriculture safely and responsibly. This is not a bad thing, nor the end of the world; it just echoes the age old truth that along with greater power ( the ability to quickly multiply the bacterial count of a watery extract of compost a thousand fold) comes greater responsibility ( the need to be even more careful to avoid multiplying a pathogen). I guess this also means, that yes Virginia, it does so matter where your cow pattie comes from....;-) I suppose I could say something about stampeding, fear, ignorance, sticking your head in the sand, and really doing your homework on the science of the matter, but I already have enough bad karma for being unpleasant with Jane, so I won't go there.... But Hugh, there are an awful lot of people out there who think there really is a pathogen problem, including Dr Brinton, and even Elaine herself. Pretending it doesn't exist is not the answer. Frank Teuton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hugh Lovel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 3:43 PM Subject: Re: Search for results of Elaine's testing of bd preps > Dear Frank, > > The E. coli scare is absurd. I question whether there is a single human on > this continent that doesn't have E. coli in their intestines. On the other > hand, the HR 157:H7 strain that is so pathogenic is a feed lot breed. It > isn't cattle herds on pasture that have it, it is herds in confinement > being fed on grain by-products. This produces a chronic diarhea condition > in the cattle and hence they get HR157:H7. My local slaughter house that > only slaughters local pastured beef gets tested twice a week and has never > had any HR157:H7 show up. > > It is pathetic when fear stampedes people and they ignore the science of > the subject. > > Best, > Hugh Lovel > Visit our website at: www.unionag.org >
