That being said, would be helpful if someone could give a concrete example of how the exporter-side fails when skinning (not "bones look different after collada" * ) or the error in my logic. From looking at the files produced the animation matrices should be correctly parent space.
* Bones may look different after import/export if they are interpreted as lines between joints (where a leaf-bone doesn't have a well defined orientation) or bones just are on different axis. 2012/1/14 Juha Mäki-Kanto <[email protected]> > Hi, > > Did some digging into this -> armature animation vs > collada<http://www.pasteall.org/28205/text> > > From testing and looking at the code Blender imports and uses animation > curves directly which isn't good. It'll only match the original in special > circumstances like if the rotation difference between bone's restpose vs > parent's restpose is identity and you're only animating rotations. For > Second Life there is actually a trick to set all restbones to be positive > Y-axis (identity matrix) which apparently then loads correctly there. > > It seems that 2.59 did export/import for armatures correctly > (#29082<http://projects.blender.org/tracker/?group_id=9&atid=498&func=detail&aid=29082>); > tested it and the eulers in the file were interpreted to be quaternions > (and the animation works) so the previous system was somewhat aware of this > caveat. > > The gist to me is that collada's transformations may not match a program's > internal representation and reinterpreting usually goes via collada data to > full matrix, possibly fix the matrix and then decomposite to curves. It's a > lossy conversion, key's should match but interpolation won't -> you need to > bake/key every frame when importing the curves. > > > > 2012/1/11 Sebastian <[email protected]> > >> Is there a list containing all COLLADA related bugs somewhere? There are >> only a few, some of them very unspecific, on the 2.6 bug tracker. >> >> >> >> On 11.01.2012 11:06, Ton Roosendaal wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > You can count on plenty of people jumping on a patch if you publish it. >> Don't understimate the power of having many eyes looking. If it requires >> more expertise or IO experience, Campbell is around to check on it too. >> > >> > -Ton- >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > Ton Roosendaal Blender Foundation [email protected] www.blender.org >> > Blender Institute Entrepotdok 57A 1018AD Amsterdam The Netherlands >> > >> > On 10 Jan, 2012, at 23:39, Juan Linietsky wrote: >> > >> >> Heh I wanted to emphasize that it works, but I seriously do need to >> work >> >> with someone familiar with writing blender and/or blender import >> plugins in >> >> C++ to do it, who can take my code and adapt it to Blender. It should >> be a >> >> short task for someone with that experience. >> >> >> >> Cheers >> >> >> >> Juan >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Daniel Salazar - 3Developer.com< >> >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >>> That sounds *very* exciting and *very* appropriate for our needs :) >> OC ads >> >>> too much weight to Blender's big ass >> >>> >> >>> Daniel Salazar >> >>> 3Developer.com >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Juan Linietsky<[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> I didn't realize a collada exporter was so important. If so.. >> >>>> >> >>>> I have a *very* *tested* and *very* *small* collada importer in my >> >>>> middleware stuff (~3k lines of C++ code). It supports pretty much >> >>>> everything (models, skeletons, materials, cameras, lights, morphs, >> >>> any-axis >> >>>> orientation, animations with matrices or curves, etc). >> >>>> >> >>>> Given it's very small size and non-dependency on OC, it's very easy >> to >> >>>> understand and *very easy to mantain*. It pretty much just ignores >> >>>> conformance of input files and just attempts to grab wathever data it >> >>> needs >> >>>> so *compatibility is extremely high*. >> >>>> >> >>>> It's not a standalone library, but it's separated enough that *if >> someone >> >>>> knowledgable of blender internals *wants to give a try to adapting >> it to >> >>>> blender (of course with me 100% available for answering questions >> with >> >>>> this), i think in a matter of a few hours we can solve the Blender >> >>> problem >> >>>> of collada import support. However as I said in previous mails, I >> really >> >>>> lack the time to get familiar with Blender internals and do this >> myself. >> >>>> >> >>>> Cheers >> >>>> >> >>>> Juan Linietsky >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Erwin Coumans< >> [email protected] >> >>>>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> Until Blender has good fbx import or an alternative collada import >> >>>>> (python?) it would be good to postpone dropping OpenCollada. >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> From the feedback, some people are using the import feature, and >> there >> >>>> is >> >>>>> no replacement. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Let's hope someone stands up and fixes the issues in trunk, rather >> then >> >>>>> branch. >> >>>>> On Jan 10, 2012 2:15 AM, "Ton Roosendaal"<[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Hi, >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> The Collada conformance suite is not working, and working on it >> won't >> >>>>> help >> >>>>>> anything. >> >>>>>> I wrote about this here; >> >>>>>> http://code.blender.org/index.php/2011/10/collada-momentum/ >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Collada just has no reference stakeholder(s) (like how fbx was >> native >> >>>> for >> >>>>>> motionbuilder). >> >>>>>> Blender would be the worst stakeholder for it even, since we have >> the >> >>>>>> awesome .blend :) >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Much better stakeholders would be Linden Labs (2nd life), or >> >>> CryTek... >> >>>> or >> >>>>>> Daz? Three names of companies who make plenty of dollars with >> >>> software >> >>>>>> licensing. Why don't they put an employee as developer in our team, >> >>> to >> >>>>>> ensure Collada exports smoothly for their products? >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I even wouldn't mind a (python) addon "Export to DazCollada, >> >>>> CryCollada, >> >>>>>> 2ndLifeCollada, etc. It's how collada has been designed to work >> >>>> anyway... >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> -Ton- >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>>>>> Ton Roosendaal Blender Foundation [email protected] >> >>>> www.blender.org >> >>>>>> Blender Institute Entrepotdok 57A 1018AD Amsterdam The >> >>> Netherlands >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> On 10 Jan, 2012, at 0:25, Sebastian wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> COLLADA has a great conformance test suite at >> >>>>>>> http://www.khronos.org/conformance/implementers/collada/ >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> It's being made available for free and I've already seen Blender >> >>>>> results >> >>>>>>> uploaded some time ago. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> On 09.01.2012 23:52, spatial wrote: >> >>>>>>>>> For the COLLADA community Blender is definitely one of the most >> >>>>>>>>> important stakeholders to stop supporting COLLADA would make >> >>> things >> >>>>> in >> >>>>>>>>> DCC exchange even worse. >> >>>>>>>> I agree. Not to mention all those who co use it alongside LW , >> all >> >>>> of >> >>>>>>>> DAZ products....etc. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> I actually tried to avoid a discussion here since a long time, >> >>>>>>>> but topic is too important. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> First, kicking out collada from blender doesn't help anyone. None >> >>> of >> >>>>> the >> >>>>>>>> "common" interexchange formats is that reliable / support all >> >>>>> features. >> >>>>>>>> To have at least a second format as a backup strategy, if a >> >>> certain >> >>>>>>>> features arent't supported / have some unreliable results, is a >> >>>> "must >> >>>>>>>> have" in every cross application enviroment. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> And btw, blenders FBX import is, from my experience, still not as >> >>>>>>>> reliable as it should be, to actually replace collada. (sorry, >> >>> this >> >>>> is >> >>>>>>>> no actual bashing... its already great what has been archived... >> >>>>>>>> especially if you consider that it is allways pain in the ass, to >> >>>>>>>> support such a complex exchange format) >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> We are currently discussing further financing of OpenCOLLADA and >> >>>> will >> >>>>>>>>> spend more time the next months on bugfixing and conformance >> >>> tests. >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Sorry to say this, but this is one of the mayor reasons I have to >> >>>> post >> >>>>>> this: >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Conformance tests do only help a little to 0 >> >>>>>>>> The big _advantage_ fbx has, is a working reference application >> >>>> called >> >>>>>> maya. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> No conformance test can actually be that foolproof to support all >> >>>>>>>> features and variations. So by this simple unoffical >> agreement,"if >> >>>> it >> >>>>>>>> doesn't work in maya - it is broken", users and developers have >> an >> >>>>> ideal >> >>>>>>>> platform to discuss errors / find workarounds. This greatly >> >>> avoids >> >>>>> the >> >>>>>>>> "picking in the dark" situation all developers currently face >> with >> >>>>>>>> collada. Even if a dev doesn't have access to it, in a lot of >> >>> cases, >> >>>>> he >> >>>>>>>> can track down problems reported by users who do provide a simple >> >>>>>>>> screenshot. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Could this collada reference application be Blender ? >> >>>>>>>> For me this is a very attractive idea, but also, I'm very aware >> of >> >>>> the >> >>>>>> fact, >> >>>>>>>> that I'm opening a can of worms I'm actually in no way in the >> >>> right >> >>>>>>>> position to touch. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Anyway just my 2 cents on this. >> >>>>>>>> chris >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>>> Bf-committers mailing list >> >>>>>>>> [email protected] >> >>>>>>>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>> Bf-committers mailing list >> >>>>>>> [email protected] >> >>>>>>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> Bf-committers mailing list >> >>>>>> [email protected] >> >>>>>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> Bf-committers mailing list >> >>>>> [email protected] >> >>>>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >> >>>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> Bf-committers mailing list >> >>>> [email protected] >> >>>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >> >>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Bf-committers mailing list >> >>> [email protected] >> >>> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Bf-committers mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Bf-committers mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >> _______________________________________________ >> Bf-committers mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >> > > _______________________________________________ Bf-committers mailing list [email protected] http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
