Doug, I didn't mean to be snooty about the whole thing, sorry if I came
off that way. Perhaps my riding style is not SO aggressive, I rarely
skid on dry pavement. While I understand what you're saying about how
slick ice is to slide on, you have very little traction on ice even
before you start to slide. Coasting across frozen puddles is one
thing, but most of the time winter presents us with freeze-thaw cycles
that leave us with undulating piles of material in our paths in various
states of frozenness and slicknesses. Studs will keep you rolling even
on these surfaces, you can stand up and pedal on those frozen puddles
and when they do skid, they have a reasonable amount of traction. I
like to just keep on riding and not worry about wiping out all the
time. Really, at this point I literally don't think I'd make it out of
my driveway on a un-studded bike!
Tim, hats off to you. I have crashed at least twice this winter alone
on bikes with un-studded tires.
As for the cost, my Nokians are 8 years old, though I think this will
be their final winter. For a tire that lets me ride all winter long,
fearlessly for 8 years, $60 a piece is a bargain. I just don't see the
point in going half way.
Frank Hassler
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RIDE A BIKE!: "If by tomorrow, every gas guzzler on the road were
replaced by Priuses, we would still have the same gridlock,
accidents, deaths, injuries and the same pressures to put more
asphalt, strip malls and subdivisions." --Thomas Smart,
(www.planetbike.com/supercommuter/)
On Feb 29, 2008, at 5:48 PM, Doug Adler wrote:
I've thought about it a lot actually. Of course the weight
distribution and braking matters, but most riders don't shift their
weight forward on every corner. The big difference in ice vs. dry
pavement is the larger drop in sliding friction on ice once a skid
starts. On dry pavement you can actually slide your front tire
through a turn and stay upright, as the friction just before slide is
only a little higher than the friction while sliding. On ice the
friction drop is much larger, so once the front tire starts to slide
it's gone. The reason studs on both is not the same as summer is that
with wet or dry pavement the friction is nearly constant at each point
on the road surface, while with a stud on ice you get big variations
depending on the ice at the point of contact and where the stud is.
So you could still bust loose and wash out. If you only have studs on
front the back tire will go first.
But like I said, try both and see which you like best, for your riding
style and your typical conditions. I ride fast, don't coast on ice,
and my back wheel doesn't slide out. But if I rode more ice I'd
probably get rears. I just think it's a matter of personal
preference, not one is inherently better.
-Doug Adler
Frank Hassler wrote:
On Feb 29, 2008, at 2:54 PM, Doug Adler wrote:
Most winter cyclists I know haven't tried only front.:-) To me
having studs front and rear can be more dangerous if you take a
corner too fast. If you have the same amount of traction front and
rear the front washes out first, while the rear slide I can deal
with.
Think about this a second, does this logic carry through to the
summer riding as well? Its the same basic physics. Which tire
looses traction first depends on your weight distribution on the bike
and the friction between each tire and the ground.... and how much
brake you grab per wheel.
If you tend to ride slowly and cautiously get both, cause the rear
is more likely to slide out when you go slow. But if you have the
occasional slick ice along with pavement and hardpack, just front
will probably suffice, and you'll get lots less drag on the pavement
because most of your weight is over the back.
I like to ride quickly and aggressively (at least when I have the
energy to do so) so I have studs front and rear so I don't NEED to
ride slowly and cautiously. Or you could just ride however and
continue riding however. There is extra rolling resistance with
studded tires, but its more then made up for when you don't have to
coast over every patch of ice you hit because when you pedal your
rear wheel slides out from under you. Also, stopping can be very
dangerous if you can't get any traction with your rear tire. I think
Peter White brings up some good points in his discussion of the
subject.
Frank Hassler
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Guard it well, for it is far more precious than money... once
destroyed, nature's beauty cannot be repurchased at any price."
-Ansel Adams
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