Arthur is correct. Keep records with serial numbers listed and take
photos of your bikes and other property. In the case of home or rental
property insurance, photos are essential in filing claims when there is
theft or damage. If you're taking a charitable deduction on your income
for a gift of property, along with the receipt, take a photo of the
property in case challenged by the IRS. Pretty much common sense.
On 6/15/2015 4:30 PM, Ross, Arthur wrote:
Wow, Lot’s of discussion about bicycle registration on the list last
weekend. John, thanks for stepping into the fray. I will add to
John’s comments a bit.
Bill Hauda started this thread by asking how useful it is to have a
record of a serial number for identification. I do not work in the
Police Department, but my understanding is that without a serial
number, or some other positive proof of ownership, it is difficult to
have stolen property that is recovered returned to its owner. As a
personal anecdote, years ago, when I lived in another city, my wife’s
flute was stolen from a house we shared with several other people. We
reported the flute stolen, but we did not have the serial number
recorded. We found the flute at a pawn shop, thanks to a chance
discussion with a stranger at a yard sale, just as it was about to be
re-sold. We called the Police and met them at the pawn shop. Based
on some unique features and problems with the flute, we were able to
convince the Police that this was indeed the flute that was stolen
from us. If we had been a half hour later the flute would have been
sold and no one would have known it was stolen since we did not have
the serial number for the police report to check against the pawn shop
purchase. The same is true for a bicycle or any other piece of
expensive equipment that has a serial number. For things that do not
have serial numbers, take pictures, note identifying marks, etc.
Having the serial number will not prevent the bicycle from being
stolen, as Harald said, but it makes it possible to have it returned
when recovered by the police. Jym mentioned the NCIC database. I
believe the Madison Police use this database to enter stolen property
reports as well as to check for stolen reports when property is
recovered. Having a bicycle registration sticker on your bicycle
hopefully acts as a bit of a deterrent. If a potential bike thief
sees that a bicycle is registered and understands that this means the
serial number and bicycle description are on record with the Police,
the thief might move on the next available bike to steal that does not
have a bicycle registration sticker. This is the thinking behind the
UPD’s Bait Bike Program, as well. See
https://uwpd.wisc.edu/news/uwpds-bait-bike-program-making-a-difference-on-campus/
I have received calls from Police department’s in other states when
they have recovered a bicycle with a city of Madison bicycle
registration sticker. I had a call from San Francisco PD a week or
two ago.
John Rider provided background information about the City’s bicycle
registration program. Here is a link to info about the program on the
City’s website, as well as how to register your bicycle either on-line
or via mail.
http://www.cityofmadison.com/bikeMadison/programs/registration.cfm
Bill and Kurt asked where does the bicycle registration money go.
First, bicycle registration is a fee, not a tax. As a fee, by state
statutes it cannot generate revenue beyond an amount that covers the
costs of the program. It cannot be used to generated funds for things
that are outside the scope of the program. Things that would be
legitimate expenditures related to bicycle registration include the
costs of the program (staff, materials, computer programming and
storage, etc.). This could expand to Police efforts for bicycle
recovery, storage, and some enforcement activities. Education could be
included to an extent, as well. The capital costs of constructing
bicycle facilities (paths, grade separations, etc.), or operating
costs of maintaining bicycle facilities (paint for bike lane markings,
sharrows, signage, etc.) would not be legitimate expenses related to
bicycle registration. The reality is that it would be a rare bicycle
registration program in the USA that operated in the black, or even
broke even. The only ones I can imagine would be a captive situation
like a University campus where a bicycle registration requirement
could be easily enforced.
I remember a similar story to Scott’s, but with the reverse situation
and outcome. At a Police bicycle auction in the late 1980’s or early
1990’s, I remember someone finding a bicycle that he believed was his
and that he had reported stolen. He did not have the serial number of
the bicycle so the Police would not release the bicycle to him. He
tried to buy the bicycle at auction but was outbid. The picture I
have in my mind is of him sitting on the ground with his back to a
wall crying because he could not get his beloved bicycle back.
There are many other positive outcome stories of people who had
registered their bicycles. A friend of mine had his bicycle stolen as
an undergrad in Madison. 20 years later it turned up and was returned
to him because the bicycle registration decal was intact. He donated
the bike to one of the organizations that sends bikes overseas to
needy areas. A kid who was thrilled to get his bike back after it was
fished out of a golf course pond. A person who had lent their bicycle
to someone who did not return it. Technically this could not be
reported as stolen since the person had permission to use it, although
not to keep it. When the bike was found abandoned on private property
and the property owned turned it over to police, the bike was returned
to its owner thanks to the bicycle registration sticker. Etc., etc., etc.
A former Bicycle Recovery Specialist in the Police Property Room
looked at the data related to the return of recovered bicycles and
came up with a statistic that a recovered bicycle that was registered
with the city was 8 times more like to be returned to its owner than a
bicycle that was not registered.
Arthur Ross, Pedestrian-Bicycle Coordinator
City of Madison Traffic Engineering Division
215 Martin Luther King, Jr. Blvd., Suite 100
PO Box 2986
Madison, WI 53701-2986
608/266-6225
*From:*Bikies [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of
*India Viola
*Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2015 9:11 AM
*To:* John Rider
*Cc:* Bikies ListServe
*Subject:* Re: [Bikies] Stolen bikes
Thanks for all the information, John.
-india
WeAreAllMechanics.com <http://WeAreAllMechanics.com>
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Stay connected- Follow WAAM on Facebook
<http://www.facebook.com/We.Are.All.Mechanics>
/"How can we learn from our mistakes if we don't first acknowledge
them?" /
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 9:05 AM, John Rider <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Larry,
The PPR does check all bikes they recover through all the official
databases. I’m pretty sure that they have paid to be a member of the
National Bike Registry which is one of the biggest “private” databases
out there so they can check it too. There are three or four other
databases that people have set up with new phone apps, but there is a
question of reliability of data with those since anybody can enter
good or bad data into them. Good question as to whether or not the
Property Room could legally share any data with people outside their
clearance level.
The Madison Bicycle Registration Program was reviewed by city
administration for possible changes a few years back, but there was no
decision made. I did a lot of research on what other communities have
done with registration, different funding and renewal schedules, but
it became a complicated and somewhat (internal) political issue and it
never got out of the committee system.
I left the Bicycle Registration Coordinator position a year ago April,
and the position was vacant most of last summer. The new Bicycle
Registration Coordinator is doing a great job, but she has had to do a
lot of catch-up after a summer with almost no contact with bike
dealers about the registration process.
I have my opinions on what could or should be done with bicycle
registration, but since I have left that job I will leave it to others
to figure it out.
Thanks,
John Rider
*From:*Larry D Nelson [mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>]
*Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2015 7:11 AM
*To:* 'John Rider'; [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* RE: [Bikies] Stolen bikes
John, I wonder if there is an opportunity here. Would it be helpful
if the Supervisor of the Police Property Room could be approached to
determine if the staff could check the data bases that have been
mentioned in this thread as a part of their intake procedure? Or
enlist assistance from volunteers?
Obviously, the best system would be to replicate the vehicle
registration system of the WIDOT but it is necessary to secure the
information regarding the owner and the serial number. But Bikies are
not known for wanting to part with their dollar or have their bikes
registered. And police administrators are often focused on what they
determine to be the problem.
Regardless, I think that this problem can be fixed if the right people
get in the same room, share information, and propose alternatives.
*From:*Bikies [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of
*John Rider
*Sent:* Sunday, June 14, 2015 9:16 PM
*To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [Bikies] Stolen bikes
According to State Statutes, the fees collected can only go toward the
cost of maintaining the program. Those costs include the part time
registration coordinator, materials, any publicity costs, Safety
Education (potentially if better compliance brought in more funds),
etc. I believe that the program has been close to breaking even for
most years, but not sure since I did not know all of the behind the
scenes overhead costs, etc.
As for impact on lost or stolen bicycles, the former Bicycle Recovery
person for the Police Property Room has said many times that she was
thrilled any time a bike with a registration sticker was recovered.
Because if it was registered, they got it back to its owner. If it
wasn’t registered, there was little chance they could find the owner.
FYI: I was the Bicycle Registration Coordinator from late 2004 until
Spring 2014.
John Rider
*From:*Bikies [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of
*William Hauda
*Sent:* Sunday, June 14, 2015 5:55 PM
*To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [Bikies] Stolen bikes
Kurt:
From, what I've been told it just pays for salaries for city
employees, but has no direct impact on lost or stolen bikes. People in
the know on this list can feel free to correct me if if I am misinformed.
Bill
On 6/14/2015 4:42 PM, kurt bermuda wrote:
Exactly where does that money go?
On Sunday, June 14, 2015, John Rider <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Just a reminder that if you live in Madison, you are legally
required to register your bicycle with the City. And, every
bicycle dealer in the City is required to register every
bicycle that they sell to a Madison resident. The cost is
$10.00 for 4 years, but every bike ever registered is still in
that database. Not a well-known ordinance, almost no money
for publicity, not a high priority for the Police or the City
Attorney’s Office, but the ordinance is there none the less.
Many bikes have been returned to their owners by the Police
Property Room because they were registered.
So if you bought a bicycle from a bike shop in Madison and
they didn’t offer to register your bike, the shop was in
violation of city ordinance, and they did you a disservice.
They could have charged you the $10.00, easily gotten all of
the required info from you at the time of sale, and your
serial number and contact information would now be in an
easily searchable bicycle registration database.
Just thought you would want to know,
John Rider
(Former City of Madison Bicycle Registration Coordinator)
*From:*Bikies [mailto:[email protected]] *On
Behalf Of *Harald Kliems
*Sent:* Sunday, June 14, 2015 1:26 PM
*To:* William Hauda; bikies-danenet.org
<http://bikies-danenet.org>
*Subject:* Re: [Bikies] Stolen bikes
There have recently been a couple of cases in Madison where a
stolen bike was recovered from pawn shops, at least partly
based on the recorded serial number. And then of course there
were the 600 recovered bikes where the DA had to drop the case
against the alleged thieves/fences because it was impossibly
to prove that the bikes had indeed been stolen. Recorded
serial numbers certainly would've helped with that
http://www.wkow.com/story/29172015/2015/05/27/exclusive-police-seize-600-suspected-stolen-bikes-but-da-drops-case
So no, a recorded serial number won't prevent your bike from
being stolen nor from being sold on Craigslist or at a yard
sale. But if the bike _is_ recovered, it'll provide you with
an easy way to identify the bike and prove ownership.
Btw, the Bike Fed has partnered with BikeIndex to facilitate
the registration of your bikes in an online database:
http://wisconsinbikefed.org/2015/03/18/bike-theft-ring-busted-and-we-launch-stolen-bike-registry/
Harald.
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 4:11 AM William Hauda
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
This bike theft and the urging by Madison PD to keep a
record of
serial numbers for identification again begs the question
of how useful
that actually is. There is no national database of bicycle
serial
numbers like there is of VINs for motor vehicles, so how
can knowing the
serial number of a stolen bike even be helpful?
http://www.channel3000.com/news/2700-bike-stolen-from-garage-in-madison-neighborhood/33549346
_______________________________________________
Bikies mailing list
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
_______________________________________________
Bikies mailing list
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
_______________________________________________
Bikies mailing list
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
_______________________________________________
Bikies mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
_______________________________________________
Bikies mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
