Wow, what a lively discussion of bicycle registration. I would just like to add that the Wisconsin Bike Fed encourages bicycle owners to register our bikes online at bikeindex.org, and features a "Stolen Bike Registry" link to that website on the upper right of the Bike Fed homepage. It's free.
http://wisconsinbikefed.org/stolen-bikes/ Bike Fed staff talked with bicycle dealers about creating a statewide bike registry. The feedback we got was, "please, not another small database. Use bikeindex.org." I'd be curious to know if MPD or checks bikeindex.org for bikes it recovers, or for stolen bike reports that it receives. Peter Gray On Monday, June 15, 2015, Larry D Nelson <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks, Arthur. I put in a request the Madison Police Property Room for a > copy of a written policy/procedure regarding the intake of bikes. That may > prove helpful for the folks who follow this listserve, some of whom have > not had a positive experience with recovery. It would be helpful, I think, > if you would make the same request to the OIC of the Property Room, someone > with railroad tracks on their collar. > > > > Larry > > > > *From:* Bikies [mailto:[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>] *On > Behalf Of *Ross, Arthur > *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2015 4:30 PM > *To:* Bikies ListServe > *Cc:* Pergola, Linda > *Subject:* Re: [Bikies] Stolen bikes > > > > Wow, Lot’s of discussion about bicycle registration on the list last > weekend. John, thanks for stepping into the fray. I will add to John’s > comments a bit. > > > > Bill Hauda started this thread by asking how useful it is to have a record > of a serial number for identification. I do not work in the Police > Department, but my understanding is that without a serial number, or some > other positive proof of ownership, it is difficult to have stolen property > that is recovered returned to its owner. As a personal anecdote, years > ago, when I lived in another city, my wife’s flute was stolen from a house > we shared with several other people. We reported the flute stolen, but we > did not have the serial number recorded. We found the flute at a pawn > shop, thanks to a chance discussion with a stranger at a yard sale, just as > it was about to be re-sold. We called the Police and met them at the pawn > shop. Based on some unique features and problems with the flute, we were > able to convince the Police that this was indeed the flute that was stolen > from us. If we had been a half hour later the flute would have been sold > and no one would have known it was stolen since we did not have the serial > number for the police report to check against the pawn shop purchase. The > same is true for a bicycle or any other piece of expensive equipment that > has a serial number. For things that do not have serial numbers, take > pictures, note identifying marks, etc. > > > > Having the serial number will not prevent the bicycle from being stolen, > as Harald said, but it makes it possible to have it returned when > recovered by the police. Jym mentioned the NCIC database. I believe the > Madison Police use this database to enter stolen property reports as well > as to check for stolen reports when property is recovered. Having a > bicycle registration sticker on your bicycle hopefully acts as a bit of a > deterrent. If a potential bike thief sees that a bicycle is registered and > understands that this means the serial number and bicycle description are > on record with the Police, the thief might move on the next available bike > to steal that does not have a bicycle registration sticker. This is the > thinking behind the UPD’s Bait Bike Program, as well. See > > > https://uwpd.wisc.edu/news/uwpds-bait-bike-program-making-a-difference-on-campus/ > > > > I have received calls from Police department’s in other states when they > have recovered a bicycle with a city of Madison bicycle registration > sticker. I had a call from San Francisco PD a week or two ago. > > > > John Rider provided background information about the City’s bicycle > registration program. Here is a link to info about the program on the > City’s website, as well as how to register your bicycle either on-line or > via mail. > http://www.cityofmadison.com/bikeMadison/programs/registration.cfm > > > > Bill and Kurt asked where does the bicycle registration money go. First, > bicycle registration is a fee, not a tax. As a fee, by state statutes it > cannot generate revenue beyond an amount that covers the costs of the > program. It cannot be used to generated funds for things that are outside > the scope of the program. Things that would be legitimate expenditures > related to bicycle registration include the costs of the program (staff, > materials, computer programming and storage, etc.). This could expand to > Police efforts for bicycle recovery, storage, and some enforcement > activities. Education could be included to an extent, as well. The > capital costs of constructing bicycle facilities (paths, grade separations, > etc.), or operating costs of maintaining bicycle facilities (paint for bike > lane markings, sharrows, signage, etc.) would not be legitimate expenses > related to bicycle registration. The reality is that it would be a rare > bicycle registration program in the USA that operated in the black, or even > broke even. The only ones I can imagine would be a captive situation like > a University campus where a bicycle registration requirement could be > easily enforced. > > > > I remember a similar story to Scott’s, but with the reverse situation and > outcome. At a Police bicycle auction in the late 1980’s or early 1990’s, I > remember someone finding a bicycle that he believed was his and that he had > reported stolen. He did not have the serial number of the bicycle so the > Police would not release the bicycle to him. He tried to buy the bicycle > at auction but was outbid. The picture I have in my mind is of him sitting > on the ground with his back to a wall crying because he could not get his > beloved bicycle back. > > > > There are many other positive outcome stories of people who had registered > their bicycles. A friend of mine had his bicycle stolen as an undergrad in > Madison. 20 years later it turned up and was returned to him because the > bicycle registration decal was intact. He donated the bike to one of the > organizations that sends bikes overseas to needy areas. A kid who was > thrilled to get his bike back after it was fished out of a golf course > pond. A person who had lent their bicycle to someone who did not return > it. Technically this could not be reported as stolen since the person had > permission to use it, although not to keep it. When the bike was found > abandoned on private property and the property owned turned it over to > police, the bike was returned to its owner thanks to the bicycle > registration sticker. Etc., etc., etc. > > > > A former Bicycle Recovery Specialist in the Police Property Room looked at > the data related to the return of recovered bicycles and came up with a > statistic that a recovered bicycle that was registered with the city was 8 > times more like to be returned to its owner than a bicycle that was not > registered. > > > > Arthur Ross, Pedestrian-Bicycle Coordinator > > City of Madison Traffic Engineering Division > > 215 Martin Luther King, Jr. Blvd., Suite 100 > > PO Box 2986 > > Madison, WI 53701-2986 > > 608/266-6225 > > > > *From:* Bikies [mailto:[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>] *On > Behalf Of *India Viola > *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2015 9:11 AM > *To:* John Rider > *Cc:* Bikies ListServe > *Subject:* Re: [Bikies] Stolen bikes > > > > Thanks for all the information, John. > > > > -india > > > WeAreAllMechanics.com > [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > > Stay connected- Follow WAAM on Facebook > <http://www.facebook.com/We.Are.All.Mechanics> > > > > *"How can we learn from our mistakes if we don't first acknowledge them?" * > > > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 9:05 AM, John Rider <[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: > > Larry, > > > > The PPR does check all bikes they recover through all the official > databases. I’m pretty sure that they have paid to be a member of the > National Bike Registry which is one of the biggest “private” databases out > there so they can check it too. There are three or four other databases > that people have set up with new phone apps, but there is a question of > reliability of data with those since anybody can enter good or bad data > into them. Good question as to whether or not the Property Room could > legally share any data with people outside their clearance level. > > > > The Madison Bicycle Registration Program was reviewed by city > administration for possible changes a few years back, but there was no > decision made. I did a lot of research on what other communities have done > with registration, different funding and renewal schedules, but it became a > complicated and somewhat (internal) political issue and it never got out of > the committee system. > > > > I left the Bicycle Registration Coordinator position a year ago April, and > the position was vacant most of last summer. The new Bicycle Registration > Coordinator is doing a great job, but she has had to do a lot of catch-up > after a summer with almost no contact with bike dealers about the > registration process. > > > > I have my opinions on what could or should be done with bicycle > registration, but since I have left that job I will leave it to others to > figure it out. > > > > Thanks, > > John Rider > > > > *From:* Larry D Nelson [mailto:[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>] > *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2015 7:11 AM > *To:* 'John Rider'; [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > *Subject:* RE: [Bikies] Stolen bikes > > > > John, I wonder if there is an opportunity here. Would it be helpful if > the Supervisor of the Police Property Room could be approached to determine > if the staff could check the data bases that have been mentioned in this > thread as a part of their intake procedure? Or enlist assistance from > volunteers? > > > > Obviously, the best system would be to replicate the vehicle registration > system of the WIDOT but it is necessary to secure the information regarding > the owner and the serial number. But Bikies are not known for wanting to > part with their dollar or have their bikes registered. And police > administrators are often focused on what they determine to be the problem. > > > > Regardless, I think that this problem can be fixed if the right people get > in the same room, share information, and propose alternatives. > > > > *From:* Bikies [mailto:[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>] *On > Behalf Of *John Rider > *Sent:* Sunday, June 14, 2015 9:16 PM > *To:* [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > *Subject:* Re: [Bikies] Stolen bikes > > > > According to State Statutes, the fees collected can only go toward the > cost of maintaining the program. Those costs include the part time > registration coordinator, materials, any publicity costs, Safety Education > (potentially if better compliance brought in more funds), etc. I believe > that the program has been close to breaking even for most years, but not > sure since I did not know all of the behind the scenes overhead costs, > etc. > > > > As for impact on lost or stolen bicycles, the former Bicycle Recovery > person for the Police Property Room has said many times that she was > thrilled any time a bike with a registration sticker was recovered. > Because if it was registered, they got it back to its owner. If it wasn’t > registered, there was little chance they could find the owner. > > > > FYI: I was the Bicycle Registration Coordinator from late 2004 until > Spring 2014. > > > > John Rider > > > > *From:* Bikies [mailto:[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>] *On > Behalf Of *William Hauda > *Sent:* Sunday, June 14, 2015 5:55 PM > *To:* [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > *Subject:* Re: [Bikies] Stolen bikes > > > > Kurt: > From, what I've been told it just pays for salaries for city > employees, but has no direct impact on lost or stolen bikes. People in the > know on this list can feel free to correct me if if I am misinformed. > Bill > > On 6/14/2015 4:42 PM, kurt bermuda wrote: > > Exactly where does that money go? > > > > > > On Sunday, June 14, 2015, John Rider <[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: > > Just a reminder that if you live in Madison, you are legally required to > register your bicycle with the City. And, every bicycle dealer in the City > is required to register every bicycle that they sell to a Madison > resident. The cost is $10.00 for 4 years, but every bike ever registered > is still in that database. Not a well-known ordinance, almost no money for > publicity, not a high priority for the Police or the City Attorney’s > Office, but the ordinance is there none the less. Many bikes have been > returned to their owners by the Police Property Room because they were > registered. > > > > So if you bought a bicycle from a bike shop in Madison and they didn’t > offer to register your bike, the shop was in violation of city ordinance, > and they did you a disservice. They could have charged you the $10.00, > easily gotten all of the required info from you at the time of sale, and > your serial number and contact information would now be in an easily > searchable bicycle registration database. > > > > Just thought you would want to know, > > John Rider > > (Former City of Madison Bicycle Registration Coordinator) > > > > *From:* Bikies [mailto:[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>] *On > Behalf Of *Harald Kliems > *Sent:* Sunday, June 14, 2015 1:26 PM > *To:* William Hauda; bikies-danenet.org > *Subject:* Re: [Bikies] Stolen bikes > > > > There have recently been a couple of cases in Madison where a stolen bike > was recovered from pawn shops, at least partly based on the recorded serial > number. And then of course there were the 600 recovered bikes where the DA > had to drop the case against the alleged thieves/fences because it was > impossibly to prove that the bikes had indeed been stolen. Recorded serial > numbers certainly would've helped with that > http://www.wkow.com/story/29172015/2015/05/27/exclusive-police-seize-600-suspected-stolen-bikes-but-da-drops-case > > So no, a recorded serial number won't prevent your bike from being stolen > nor from being sold on Craigslist or at a yard sale. But if the bike _is_ > recovered, it'll provide you with an easy way to identify the bike and > prove ownership. > > > > Btw, the Bike Fed has partnered with BikeIndex to facilitate the > registration of your bikes in an online database: > http://wisconsinbikefed.org/2015/03/18/bike-theft-ring-busted-and-we-launch-stolen-bike-registry/ > > > > Harald. > > > > On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 4:11 AM William Hauda <[email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: > > This bike theft and the urging by Madison PD to keep a record of > serial numbers for identification again begs the question of how useful > that actually is. There is no national database of bicycle serial > numbers like there is of VINs for motor vehicles, so how can knowing the > serial number of a stolen bike even be helpful? > > http://www.channel3000.com/news/2700-bike-stolen-from-garage-in-madison-neighborhood/33549346 > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bikies mailing list > > [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > > > ------------------------------ > > [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bikies mailing list > [email protected] > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org > > > > > ------------------------------ > [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> > >
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