It seems to me, that if you are going to make blanket statements on gaming, you probably ought to have some idea of how game development works. I am not saying that you need to study game development, rather that you ought to be aware that the issue is much more complex than you are aware of.
On 9/27/17, Charles Rivard <wee1s...@fidnet.com> wrote: > I see things from the point of view as a game player, not a game developer. > > I have no problem if a game is designed to penalize crazy random shooting. > If points are deducted for incorrect shots, I'm all for it. This would > encourage the use of skill and discourage relying on sheer luck. > > > > > If you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished!! > -----Original Message----- > From: Justin Jones > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 6:38 PM > To: blind-gamers@groups.io > Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] Gaming without Aiming, panel discussion from > ourold pal Liam! > > Charles, > > You did not address my earlier point, but to remind you: you are > confusing a game development issue with player agency. In your > original post, you indicated that button-mashing is a form of > cheating, and I pointed out that it is on the developers to insure > that skill is rewarded. The player does not have the responsibility to > insure that a game developer checks all the proper boxes, dots all the > I's and crosses the T's. The most a player can do is to simply not > play the game and move along. > > Your answer, please. > > On 9/26/17, Charles Rivard <wee1s...@fidnet.com> wrote: >> Here’s an example of my point about using skill or not using skill when >> playing a game. >> >> You have a bowling game that you want to play. Rather than rolling 1 >> ball, >> you roll 2 at the same time, triggering the switches that determine pin >> action. Using this method, you can score a perfect game! Try it using >> only >> 1 ball. This would take skill to score well. Which would you prefer? >> Now, >> after your first ball, there is no feedback as to which pins remain >> standing. How do you know what to do to get a spare, or do you just roll >> >> a >> ball randomly in hopes of getting lucky? After the second ball, or at >> the >> end of the game, you aren’t given your score. I would very much prefer >> knowing what to shoot at for a spare, and how successful I was, and I do >> want to know my final score so that I can try to top my high score. >> After >> all, the object of bowling is not to just roll a ball down a lane, but to >> get a high score. >> >> >> If you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished!! >> >> From: Liam Erven >> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 7:30 PM >> To: blind-gamers@groups.io >> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] Gaming without Aiming, panel discussion from >> ourold pal Liam! >> >> What ever happened to a game just being fun. >> >> Why can’t we just enjoy a game even if we’re horrible at it? I point this >> out in my talk. It’s not about skill, but about having a good time. >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >> >> >> >> From: Justin Jones >> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 7:24 PM >> To: blind-gamers@groups.io >> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] Gaming without Aiming, panel discussion from >> ourold pal Liam! >> >> >> >> It's not cheating if that is a built-in game mechanic, i.e. if people >> >> can hammer on a button and hope that they can catch the ball and flip >> >> it to where it needs to go without penalty, then that is an inherent >> >> flaw with the game itself. >> >> >> >> If you try to button-mash a mainstream fighting game, for instance, >> >> and you run into someone with real skill, you will not win that >> >> battle. Skill wins every time, but you have to have a game designed >> >> from the ground up to reward skill over mindless button-mashing. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 9/25/17, Charles Rivard <wee1s...@fidnet.com> wrote: >> >>> How is my post out of line? It is a gaming topic. It has nothing to do >> >>> with "real life". My point is that continuous shooting takes no skill, >> >>> while waiting until you should shoot and being quick enough to do so >> >>> successfully is the actual object of pinball or any other game. Playing >>> one >> >>> >> >>> way is a game of skill while playing the other way takes no skill. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> If you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished!! >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: Jude DaShiell >> >>> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 7:31 AM >> >>> To: blind-gamers@groups.io >> >>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] Gaming without Aiming, panel discussion from >>> our >> >>> >> >>> old pal Liam! >> >>> >> >>> No game penalties are imposed for missed shots and this is out of line >> >>> with reality. Actually, in real life three penalties apply. First, >> >>> time wasted cannot be recovered. Second, wasted energy which may be >> >>> recovered in time if the player survives long enough. Third, and most >> >>> important your opponent gets a shot at your position which your failed >> >>> shot just gave away. These penalties apply far more in real world >> >>> sniper situations than games made accessible for blind players but in >> >>> real world simulators used to prepare actual soldiers all of those >> >>> penalties will apply if for no other reason than to keep those soldiers >> >>> alive longer in the real field exercises and campaigns. >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, 25 Sep 2017, Charles Rivard wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 06:46:25 >> >>>> From: Charles Rivard <wee1s...@fidnet.com> >> >>>> Reply-To: blind-gamers@groups.io >> >>>> To: blind-gamers@groups.io >> >>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] Gaming without Aiming, >> >>>> panel discussion from our old pal Liam! >> >>>> >> >>>> Although this has nothing to do with Liam's panel, it does fall in line >> >>>> with the subject line, so here are my thoughts, and I would like yours: >> >>>> >> >>>> Some people claim that they can play a game without being able to see >>>> when >> >>>> >> >>>> to hit a rolling ball or other such task that requires sight. As it >>>> turns >> >>>> >> >>>> out, all they are doing is continuously, very frantically, firing. >>>> Take >> >>>> Blindfold Pinball for example. For a while, I hosted an iPhone gaming >> >>>> event on >> >>>> >> >>>> www.Out-Of-Sight.net >> >>>> >> >>>> in which we chose a game that was on everyone's iPhone, and we took >>>> turns >> >>>> >> >>>> locking out mike key down, playing 1 ball, then releasing our mike key >>>> for >> >>>> >> >>>> the next player. After the third ball had been played, high score won. >> >>>> The way that I played was to listen for when the ball approached a >> >>>> flipper, then hitting the flipper, trying to actually use skill when >> >>>> playing. Others would launch their ball and immediately start >>>> hammering >> >>>> away at the flippers in hopes of hitting the ball when it rolled within >> >>>> range. Is this how the game should be played, with no skill involved? >> >>>> They usually beat me, but I feel that they were cheating. Some people >> >>>> claim that they can successfully play games involving punching the >> >>>> opponent, but they punch quickly and continuously in hope of success. >>>> To >> >>>> >> >>>> me, a game should be played with skill, not luck. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> If you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished!! >> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Jack Falejjczyk >> >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2017 9:07 PM >> >>>> To: blind-gamers@groups.io >> >>>> Subject: [blind-gamers] Gaming without Aiming, panel discussion from >>>> our >> >>>> old pal Liam! >> >>>> >> >>>> Hi folks. Last weekend, Liam was at an Illinois gaming convention >> >>>> called Gamer Grace. Saturday, his panel, Gaming without Aiming, >> >>>> discusses gaming with a visual impairment. The panel is available at >> >>>> http://youtu.be/ZYt1GeiiXeY?a >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >> >> atreides...@gmail.com >> >> (254) 624-9155 >> >> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Justin M. Jones, M.A. > atreides...@gmail.com > (254) 624-9155 > 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 > > > > > > > -- Justin M. Jones, M.A. atreides...@gmail.com (254) 624-9155 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. 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