Hi, This isn't about rights, it's about the reality and the resources available. Please read the message in full before jumping to conclusions. This is also about who exactly is going to be using the product and the budget and spending allowed for that subset of users. As pointed out, this is quite literally exactly how we fly, thanks to talking flight monitor and a few other programs, such as fs tramp. We do quite well - this is a simulator, not a reality, and you can make it as real or as unreal as you please, complete with unlimited fuel. However with the advancement and popularity from our admittedly small subset of blind pilots, Microsoft had promised blind simmers accessibility. We never got it. This is, of course, more than likely due to covid, stretched deadlines, and not enough time to complete everything. It must be, because even sighted players are complaining about the smallest of issues that should have been ironed out, and it's been a year later. So clearly there are other issues that are far higher priority than a few dozen blind simmers who actually sim regularly and are as serious as we in the blind community can get. That being said, Dennis is exactly right. One of the huge booms in FS2020 is what's known as vfr flying - visual flight rules. For a blind simmer, while this is doable in practice, it's literally flying blind. You're flying under the assumption that there are no planes around you, that you're not going to smash ass over tea kettle into another guy in front of you or around you, that the ground isn't coming up to meet you. There is only so much accessibility can do to help with that. I'm at the point where, flying IFR (as Dennis also aptly pointed out, instrument flight rules), I have gotten commented on by controllers at my landing when they find out I am a blind pilot. This has only come with a year and a half of experience, others and my own mistakes, and learning what we can and can not do. We need to have realistic goals with realistic timeframes. Demanding that we, 20 or maybe 40 users at the very outside, get Catered to is simply absurd and unrealistic. From a business standpoint, it would cost far more money than we as consumers would provide.
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Jordan Gallacher Sent: Friday, April 2, 2021 9:57 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] A question for my fellow BVI Pilots. Wrong attitude completely. We the blind have equal rights to have equal access to everything. Get it in your head > On Apr 2, 2021, at 10:50 AM, Dennis Towne <[email protected]> wrote: > > As a sighted developer to a blind consumer, asking one of you who > knows how to write code to join the team would probably not have > worked. > > The problem is that making a visual game blind accessible isn't just > hard, it's really, really, really hard, and sometimes outright > impossible. A good example of outright impossible is Minecraft; sure, > you could probably build something that is sorta a little like > Minecraft for the blind, but it wouldn't be "accessible Minecraft". > It would be "a completely different game that's accessible". > > I've had a lot of trouble getting this across to the blind community, > in particular to those who have been blind from birth. There's just > no analog for vision, there's no generic mechanism to convert vision > to text. There are certain types of visual game, certain types of > visual interfaces, for which there just isn't any way to generate > blind accessible data that people can understand. Minecraft is one of > those games. > > The good news is that flight simulators are a lot easier than > Minecraft: instead of impossible, they're just really hard. When > flying, there's a concept known as 'flying on instruments', which > basically means you can only use the instrument readouts from the > dashboard, unless you're landing. For 'flying on instruments' mode, I > could see some sort of setup where a reader could read out the > instruments one at a time. For small aircraft, that would probably > only be about a dozen or so instruments, so you could probably get a > feel for what the aircraft is doing in 30 seconds once you got good at > it. That's good enough for everything except takeoff and landing. > > For blind accessible takeoff and landing, you'd probably need a > 'default on' autopilot for every aircraft that can handle it for you. > I'd expect moderately good blind players to be able to taxi and take > off once they get the hang of it, but only the most advanced would be > able to land safely. Both takeoff and landing happen on the order of > seconds, and keeping up with the instrument readouts fast enough is > going to be really hard. > > But as I mentioned above, a game like this isn't flight simulator > anymore - it's "flight simulator in instruments only mode with > assisted taxi, takeoff, and landing", and that's a different game than > what Microsoft probably wants to build. Adding blind developers isn't > going to help, because making it accessible at that level means > building a different game from what flight simulator already is. > > -dentin > > Alter Aeon MUD > http://www.alteraeon.com > >> On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 8:55 AM Ron Kolesar <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> L say, that they should have gotten our input when they started the project. >> >> From one blind consumer to another, it would have been easier to ask for one >> of us who knows how to write code to join the team for accessibility, >> instead of plugging in accessibility after the program has been written. >> >> Take a look at FSX? >> >> Many thanks for the reply. >> >> Ron >> >> >> >> From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Joshua >> Tubbs >> Sent: Friday, April 2, 2021 8:46 >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] A question for my fellow BVI Pilots. >> >> >> >> Ron, when they say accessibility has been written into FS2020, they don't >> mean blind accessibility, at least for now. >> >> There's accessibility for other disabilities, and pretty much most common >> disabilities it's way easier to implement accessibility features. >> >> >> >> When you talk about blind accessibility however it's entirely different. >> >> >> >> Jorg goes on and on about how they want to make it accessible for everyone. >> They want feedback, however blind accessibility would require making drastic >> changes that I guess just aren't possible right now. I have also emailed >> them. It gets even more complicated when you have two companies. Microsoft >> Handles marketing, licensing, etc, while Asobo handles the code and >> features. Perhaps it might be a team effort across the two companies in >> regard to coding but that's how they're doing things. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 11:19 PM Ron Kolesar <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Well, I was disappointed with FS 2020 not being accessible for us. >> Even though I have been e-mailing back and forth with a member of the fs >> 2020 team. >> They've been advertising that there's accessibility written into the product >> and trust me when I say there sadly isn't. >> Just been having to many problems with the older fsx program. >> Even though I purchased it from steam, only because sadly my dvd ran out and >> wouldn't allow me to use them any more. >> Like yourself, I too appreciate that latest and up to date and as close to >> the real world. >> So, I'm switching over to p3d 5. >> Hope that will answer your question. >> I guess from your advice, I'll stay with Active Sky. >> Many thanks for the advice and please write to me off list at: >> [email protected] >> We BVI Pilots need to stick together. >> Ron U.S. Ham Radio Station KR3DOG > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. 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