It's not the blindy way of access, it's the lowest common denominator of access. There is a difference and if you haven't worked in a11y, you won't appreciate that difference.
Jude <jdashiel at panix dot com> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) . On Sun, 22 Jan 2023, Shaun Everiss wrote: > I actually disagree. > > The sighted world is opening up and education is the way. > > Yes the blind etc should have more involvement. > > But do we really want to go down the blindy way of access. > > Ie this program needs jaws to work and will cost a lot of cash. > > q9 is in leasy, leasy costs cash. > > Blindness software costs a lot of cash. > > You really want our own stuff for our own stuff? > > True its accessible to us but thats it. > > True some don't write all that well but working as a web system and software > tester, using what is already existing is the big thing. > > Labeled images, things which are so fancy they just don't read, etc. > > The web platform is the future. > > Back in the day I used spaciffic blindness software. > > And while I could access things while everyone brought new hardware mine had > to work with the software for access on a speech synth which if it didn't work > wouldn't work. > > > Mainstreaming may have dropped access a little but its also got us using > mainstreamed tech. > > And in the age of ai, voice recognition, and some screen access the world is > ready for us. > > There will come a point when blindness will be a thing of the past. > > And when that happens, all the blindy developers and blind software makers and > blindy everyone and all the helpless blindy blind persons will be out of a > job. > > What I am saying is there will be a point where integration will be the > future. > > And I'd rather do it now painfull that it may be right at this moment than > later. > > Another example. > > My now dead grandpa used paper, had issues understanding security and the net. > > Got into the waggon to late. > > Then all the analog lines dropped. > > Same with my aunt. > > By then in my grandpa's case it was to complex. > > A lot of the old are left high and dry because the world has moved on. > > I don't think the disabled should be left like that if there is an opertunity > to move. > > Saying all that I do agree with you that the blind and general disabled > community are under utilised by the mainstream community and thats going to > need to change if we are to move forward. > > > > On 22/01/2023 7:59 am, Jude DaShiell wrote: > > We need more blind developers replacing those sighted developers or we'll > > never get accessible useable and functional software everyone can use. > > > > > > > > Jude <jdashiel at panix dot com> "There are four boxes to be used in > > defense of liberty: > > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) > > > > . > > > > On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Travis Siegel wrote: > > > >> Nah, it's easy to make an accessible java program. Making it not > >> accessible > >> actually takes work believe it or not. > >> > >> Unfortunately, most folks don't like the default output routines java gives > >> us, so instead of using those, they'll draw things on the screen instead of > >> using the provided text output routines java has built in. And, even > >> better, > >> (for visually impaired developers), java has a grid mode, where it will > >> place > >> GUI elements on the screen in a logical left to right top to bottom layout > >> for > >> you, so you never have to worry about your screen designs being visible, > >> and > >> you don't have to fight with screen layout at all. Unfortunately, java > >> also > >> offers other layout modes/methods, and often times sighted developers think > >> nothing of making their app look unique, so they fiddle with various > >> aspects > >> of the output modes, making them less than usable for screen reader users. > >> > >> Apple developers do the same thing, if folks using the apple development > >> tools > >> use the apple provided screen layout elements, the app is 100 percent > >> accessible. But, as always, folks want their app to look different, or > >> they > >> want to do something different, and so they don't use the provided default > >> elements, and poof, instant app that isn't accessible. > >> > >> These days, it's trivially easy to make accessible applications, only > >> sighted > >> developers don't like boring, so they try to snazz things up by changing > >> various aspects of the design, and thereby screw up the built in > >> accessibility > >> in the process. > >> > >> > >> On 1/21/2023 10:40 AM, Jude DaShiell wrote: > >>> Mudschool in coffeemud shows you when you get to the correct room about > >>> its config options. For some reason coffeemud throws ansi and that messes > >>> up screen displays. Prompts usually hang out near the bottom of the > >>> screen if you set lines and columns correctly too. That way those can > >>> either be avoided or turned off by setting a window on the screen reader > >>> that doesn't include those prompt lines and using that window for > >>> operations. Remember coffeemud like many other bad things on the internet > >>> was written in java so won't be as easily maintainable as earlier > >>> languages with deeper internet documentation. It's interesting to me that > >>> coffeemud having been written in java works as well as it does. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Jude <jdashiel at panix dot com> "There are four boxes to be used in > >>> defense of liberty: > >>> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > >>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) > >>> > >>> . > >>> > >>> On Sat, 21 Jan 2023, Lindsay Cowell wrote: > >>> > >>>> I also tried coffee mud, but I find it very confusing. As you can?t turn > >>>> the prompts off and it is very confusing and there are no screen reader > >>>> settings that I can find. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 20 Jan 2023, at 11:34 pm, Travis Siegel <[email protected]> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The two I play the most are 3k.org 3000, and their sister mud > >>>> 3scapes.3k.org 3000, and of course alter aeon, which you probably > >>>> already have (alteraeon.com 3000) > >>>> > >>>> Both of those muds have screen reader settings to make the mud > >>>> easier to use. > >>>> > >>>> Drop me a line if you loginto 3k or 3scapes, and I'll be happy to > >>>> assist where I can. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 1/20/2023 5:23 PM, Lindsay Cowell wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hi guys > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Can anyone recommend any good muds? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Lindsay Cowell. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Sent from Mail for Windows > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> From: Jude DaShiell > >>>> Sent: 20 January 2023 19:47 > >>>> To: [email protected] > >>>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] coffeemud > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Bad experience in that mud. > >>>> > >>>> For anyone intent on playing coffeemud I leave you with two tips. > >>>> > >>>> First when going through mudschool, do not accept the quest you will be > >>>> > >>>> offered. Reason for that is dealer in land is impossible to find so the > >>>> > >>>> quest cannot be completed. > >>>> > >>>> Second, when you create a character for coffeemud create several since > >>>> the > >>>> > >>>> kill rate in that game is high at low levels and level 6 and below is a > >>>> > >>>> low level. > >>>> > >>>> This way as you retire failed characters, you can play another you > >>>> created > >>>> > >>>> earlier. Yes this will mean lots of time in mudschool and a highly > >>>> boring > >>>> > >>>> experience for a long time but eventually you'll have all of the > >>>> > >>>> characters you created graduate. > >>>> > >>>> Another advantage of not taking the mudschool quest is you don't have to > >>>> > >>>> start out in asGaard and can have your choice of any of the cities as > >>>> each > >>>> > >>>> character leaves mudschool > >>>> > >>>> There's a dungeon in the center of the mudschool arena so if you can kill > >>>> > >>>> everything in that dungeon and loot the bodies you'll have a little more > >>>> > >>>> money when you graduate. Money is hard to come by though you can bank > >>>> it. > >>>> > >>>> Avoid a short man with a clipboard since that's the tax collector. The > >>>> > >>>> tax collector floats around to different locations in the game too. > >>>> > >>>> All my characters got killed and retired in coffeemud so I'll not be > >>>> > >>>> playing that one for quite a while since it wasn't the best experience > >>>> > >>>> with a mud I've had. At least with nethack it doesn't take so long to > >>>> > >>>> build a character before it gets killed not the case with coffeemud. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Jude <jdashiel at panix dot com> "There are four boxes to be used in > >>>> > >>>> defense of liberty: > >>>> > >>>> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > >>>> > >>>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> . > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. 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