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[email protected] Today's topics: * Respected Dr. Ravi Kant Pathak Ji (it is not personal attack even it looks) ( i apologize for harsh language) - 1 messages, 1 author http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/2da5c7735ff0cb03?hl=en * Uniting and Rejunvenating BM - 2 messages, 2 authors http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/82c5b0087e6ac46d?hl=en ============================================================================== TOPIC: Respected Dr. Ravi Kant Pathak Ji (it is not personal attack even it looks) (i apologize for harsh language) http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/2da5c7735ff0cb03?hl=en ============================================================================== == 1 of 1 == Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 4:02 am From: "Vivek Umrao Glendenning" Respected Dr. Ravi Kant Bhai Ji, Can I ask your age? You mentioned that you will become full timer at 2011-2012. Wow, I am fully impressed by your this long term. Brother I think you have not been serving society, just working for money or prestige or identity etc. If you are honest then can you reply me that what should be priority-- to work immediately for society (when it needs) or to work based on own planning. Brother, you have wasted your highest efficient years only in getting identities, money etc and when you will have less energy, you will start your contribution in society. I am impressed by your past and current decisions. I am also being motivated by your deep level of commitment and dedication for society. Can you inform me, where you invested your best years of life? To live in USA, to work for money, to get some universities degrees only. I think, you always search securities. You came India just for few months and you accepted General Secretary Ship of BM (under which truth and social or moral values), you can not live without illusions or identity or power game. Again you retuned back from India You will return to India after many months and you will join here as Prof in IIT, and also you are saying that you have started a center for Village Economy in India. Wow great. Dear Brother, As previous, I am saying again that first try to understand the real meaning of Truth, Commitment, Dedication and Spirit. These things can not be proved by writing mails in online groups or by giving parental properties (controlled by yourself or your own family). First prepare yourself and try to remove your internal psychological insecurities and identity complexes, and introspect yourself deeply without thinking that you have perfect understanding. In reality, I had to start to think that you are moving towards society or just to get your own egos..... I am not criticizing you. I am trying only to suggest better towards reality of society. First you should start to think that what should be greatness of a society. do not try to pull yourself. It is a very dangerous thing for society. Try to go in real society and try to learn from society. Society will tell you, what should be done or not. Try to be a very common man, very common man. If you are really want to work for Indian society then first go to various works in all over India (the works, for those you never got any information in English Media, In Internet or News Papers or Awards etc) to learn from them. I get, you are confused a lot, because you do not have your own "ANUBHAW". You always borrow "ANUBHAW" from others and feel that you are "ANUBHAWI" but because you borrow "ANUBHAW" thus these are not "ANUBHAW" for you these are only information to you. "ANUBHAW" is always your own and alive. You will have to decide that you will be rigid in your internal invisible egos or you will drop yourself in social learning processes. May be it will be very difficult to you because you spent your quality years in a very violent country (USA), who kills the old cultures and civilizations. And because you are being over in age of highest energetic years, you are interested to show lots of works without thinking with farsighted vision. BM members have trust on you, thus it is your biggest responsibility that you should be honest and should form a better tradition. But I feel that you have started to move in path of farsighted mistakes. You always use words without having understandings of these words. And people become impressed with the heavy words because you speak amongst intellectuals. I was surprised when I saw that you were using English. Please do not mind, I was feeling that you will have learn lots of things before you will start to work in real society. BM is still not an organization. It is still struggling for its existence. Why? any social organization always being formed gradually by society by learning by doing in reality. and BM was formed from air by virtual means. Sill it is moving in same things. It is very easy to form online groups of BM for each village (in place of each district as I get mails CC to hundreds of BM online groups), but all these things are virtual not real. To write emails with high philosophical words is very easy and also implement philosophies in closed systems are easy (as you are going to form a center in your own land by getting money from your rich friends, by using your parents, you are using a very closed system and also you do not need to be accountable for society within this system; by these things you can get awards as Magsaysay type and can enjoy life till your death but if you want to walk on truth then tell me where is truth) Brother, our society needs very very honest efforts towards social solution. If you are ready to introspect yourself. I offer to join hands together to work for social solution. If you will establish an ASHRAM by generating local support to establish it then it will be towards Village Economy. With initial outer support you can not move towards Village Economy even you will form a nice and beautiful ASHRAM. love vivek ps- I am saying these these things even I know that it is very difficult to you to change your mind set. You are making small slips but with bigger long term negative impacts. ...................... Vivek Umrao [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.localgovernance.org/family.html (Committed to Last Person of Society with Social Governance) **** Former Researcher- Indian Institute of Management (IIM) * Coordinator-- Local Governance & Decentralized Economy Social Group * Coordinator for International Relation-- GOKUL University. * Vice Chairman-- Koya Wes Institute * Member-- Asha (www.ashanet.org) * Former Secretary-to-Trustee Secretary-- Gandhi Smarak Nidhi, Rajghat, ND ***WORK FIELDS --- Decentralized Economy, Social Democracy, Water Issues, Education, Human Values, Decentralized & Local Technology, Street Play, Tribal Solutions, Social Corporate systems, Alternative Writings. ============================================================================== TOPIC: Uniting and Rejunvenating BM http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/82c5b0087e6ac46d?hl=en ============================================================================== == 1 of 2 == Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 4:52 am From: "Social Ownership" Respected Sh. Ravi Kant Pathak Bhai, > > I hope, you are in good health and are happy in your personal life end. > Nice to see your email after a long time. I read your mail and want to raise > some questions. I think that Indian society needs very deep and dedicated > efforts with understanding of society and life. Here understanding does not > mean bookish or airy things. I hope you will not have problems with my > questions. > > Why did you opt your own parents for your center? How do you decide that > the cost of your parental land is about one million Rs? > How do you feel that you should feel ownership on your parental property? > Did you earn it? > You have been living out side from India for last many years and you came > India for few months, you started some thing in your own land, in your own > village under supervision of your own parents. > I can arrange you much bigger land (more than Rs One Million) in other > state from your own parental place, you can start there your center there. > You lived in USA, what are the reasons to trust on your center to donate > money? I think you are totally confused- you came to India for few > months, in these months you visited IITs and other Elite Institutes to > deliver lectures and you spend some part of your time in construction in > your land by saying that it is a Social Center. > When you motivated society? When you participated in social issues of > common society? When you discussed with common society that what should be > done and how? > Why are you demanding money from others and for what? Why do you see all > things just in money and currency? > Can you make India as a great nation by getting 5 Rs or teaching in IIT? > You have been living in USA for years and now you are going to become a > faculty in IIT Delhi. My brother, some time I feel that for you, India is a > joke only. > Why do you need to be a Faculty of IIT? (I think only for Illusions to > avoid hard path in life). > If you will say that it is because you need some money for your > livelihood, then why are you not interested to be a faculty in any small > engineering college near to your center (you will be able to contribute in > your center in a real sense). Do you think that from the Capital of > India, and by using Illusions of IIT etc to capture the political power will > be easy? If you think it, then you are in confusion and also in two opposite > banks in the same time. > > You are talking for Village Economy and also you are > demanding currency and money. These are the contradictions and indicate that > you lack the understandings. > My brother by these things you can not move towards greatness of any > society. Dear Nation is a political system and the Theory and Word "Nation" > was initiated by British Colonial Systems. > I think you are in very much hurry just to show that you are doing this or > that. Please be serious and be honest for common society. > > One more thing, Village is not a complete unit (think it seriously). One > more thing, please try to discuss with your own understandings, do not > use other's things I.e. Gandhi told this or one told this or that. > I would like to discuss on the ground of your own understandings. > > Do you think that society or social movements can be initiated by lighting > candles in Delhi by calling people with payment and then by sending emails? > > Please do not mind my email. > I know where are you moving in mistakes. I know that society lacks > dedicated and conceptual personalities. I want to suggest you even you will > become angry and will start to abuse me directly or indirectly. But you > should introspect by these and more questions. You have no right to continue > the things by these the trust of society was misused and is being exploited. > What are you writing, these are good to get awards as Magsaysay and enjoy > the life but these have lesser relation towards social solution. > > If you are interested deep discussion, I am ready for it. > love > vivek > ps- first try to remove your internal insecurity complexes. (think on this > suggestion seriously without being reactive) > > > > *From:* Ravi Kant Pathak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 17, 2007 9:14 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* [BM_discussion] Uniting and Rejunvenating BM > > Dear Brothers and Sisters, > vandemaatram! > > Once upon a time I was member of BM_USA chapter. then I moved to India in > January 2007. However, I am in Hong Kong right now and I will back in India > next year. I will be serving IIT Delhi as Asst. Professor. In last nine > months, I was touring India (for first five months) and trying to initiate > the first BM centre in my own village. This centre (ashram) will ceaselessly > work for the rise of that village. I strongly believe that without reviving > our village economy, India can not become a great nation again. recently > there were many articles about it posted by our members on the group. > > Is that enough? we talk about freedom fighters, farmers coming suicide > etc. what we do?? Nothing!! In our daily routine life inertia pulls us back > from actions. at the end of the day, if we find time to read an article > about our country , we feel charged up and we feel we have contributed to > the country by loving it. we all love our country. we feel so much > emotional, then what we do?? please go through a self-analysis. what stops > us?? > > Let us rejuvenate ourselves and contribute everyday. I urge all BM > members to do something everyday for our motherland India. Please do > something to spread the nationalism around you. we need people to save this > great nation. how many of us are saving atleast Rs.5/day for India? how > many of us search like minded people every day around us? we an army of > patriots under the umbrella of bharat Uday Mission, do we do anything worth > to this great nation. when I say so I am not talking in air. I possess > passion for my country, and eventually i am ready to give my entire life for > my motherland, but I need people to support my path; morally/spiritually, > physically and economically. If we want to achieve goals we set before us, > we need to go every village and study their problems and find solutions for > them. for that we shall need initially huge infrastruture to create > self-sustianing centres in the village. to do so, we shall need financial > contributions from each one of us. Here I am talking about at least a > million dollar budget. how should we go ahead. who will donate? what > righteous means means we shall have to earn that amount of money? and how > long it will take? > This is time to make commitment and strive to fulfill them; this time to > be generous and courageous to take decisions to contribute to the nation. > > I pledge for the followings: > > 1) I commit to donate one million Rs. for the cause ( I will donate > equivant worth land to establish these centre). Infact I have already > initiated the work). My parents are working day and night to establish the > centre (karmayogi ashram). I have already invested quater million Rs. in the > ashram. > > 2) I commit to strive day and night to approach people who can donate for > establishing these centres in different village. I will approach local > industialists, Govt. organization, non-govt. organizations in this nation > building projects. everyone should be involved; thus only we cna create an > environment/atmosphere of national service. if you want more information > about these projects please write me. > > 3) I will physically work in the construction of these centre. I will lead > the ideological team of this project and I pledge to work as a manual > laborer in this nation building mission. > > 4) I take responsibility of every penny donated for the mission and all > finacial integrety will be maintianed. > > 5) I will start a BM hong kong chapter soon and unite Indians here. > 6) I will also pray GOD to help us our BM endeavors!! > > > what is expected from BM India: > > 1) at least 50 members who can donate Rs. 25000for the cause > 2) atleast 100 member who can donate Rs.$11000 for the cause > 3) atleast 1000 members who can donate atleast Rs.$ 1000 for the cause > 4) atleast 5 members who can give their time and idea in the development > of these centres. > 5) Few members to find time to come India and take up some responsibility > of development > > Please search your heart and if you find purity and appeal in the above > mail please act! > let get rechagre for the work and let us do something worht in our lives. > jai hind! > > satyamev jayate!! > Ravi kant > > HONG KONG > > > > > > ...................... > Vivek Umrao > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > www.localgovernance.org/family.html > (Committed to Last Person of Society with Social Governance) > > **** Former Researcher- Indian Institute of Management (IIM) > * Coordinator-- Local Governance & Decentralized Economy Social Group > * Coordinator for International Relation-- GOKUL University. > * Vice Chairman-- Koya Wes Institute > * Member-- Asha (www.ashanet.org) > * Former Secretary-to-Trustee Secretary-- Gandhi Smarak Nidhi, Rajghat, ND > > ***WORK FIELDS --- > Decentralized Economy, Social Democracy, Water Issues, Education, Human > Values, Decentralized & Local Technology, Street Play, Tribal Solutions, > Social Corporate systems, Alternative Writings. > == 2 of 2 == Date: Wed, Oct 17 2007 11:16 am From: "Surendran B" With all respect to Mr.Vivek, I would like to answer a few issues that he has raised in his reply to the mail from Shri. Ravi Kant. The purpose of this mail is not to defend anyone but to answer the issues from the perspective of a member of BM. Being a member I feel that the allegations (if I may use that term) made by Mr.Vivek can well be applied to anybody in the organization and not directed to one person alone. The foremost issue pointed out by Mr.Vivek is that people are wasting their most efficient years in acquiring identities rather than doing contributions. A number of great leaders of India, particularly during freedom struggle, gave their heart and soul and some gave even their lives for the sake of the country and post independence some of them continued to work for the survival of India as a democracy and they did succeed. I think I need not mention any particular names. The point I like to make here is most of these leaders did spend their most productive years in acquiring the same identities. I might sound crude but it is a fact that the economic security(as they belonged to well off families) they had did play a role in their decision to renounce everything and commit themselves fully for the cause of the society. They did not have any prior experience in the field. I do not intend to compare the members of BM to those great human beings but I would like to point out that acquiring professional identities from an institution outside the country need not always stand in the way of the commitment of a person to contribute for the sake of the country. I will not wishfully discount the fact that there were leaders, who came from humble backgrounds, suffered a lot and rose up to great levels purely through their hard work and commitment. The point I like to make here I that a successful and committed person can emerge from any section of the society and what is need is the right spirit. I don't want to sound like a Marxist but I would like to raise a basic question. When the daily bread is in question, where will one get the strength to rise up and fight for the cause of the society? And to that effect what is wrong in one working towards acquiring a professional identity for the self. If acquiring/possessing identity is not a big deal can Mr.Vivek please explain to all why the following message is being appended to all the mails. *Vivek Umrao [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.localgovernance.org/family.html (Committed to Last Person of Society with Social Governance)* * * ***** Former Researcher- Indian Institute of Management (IIM) * Coordinator-- Local Governance & Decentralized Economy Social Group * Coordinator for **International** **Relation--** **GOKUL** **University**. * Vice Chairman-- Koya Wes Institute * Member-- Asha (www.ashanet.org) * Former Secretary-to-Trustee Secretary-- Gandhi Smarak Nidhi, **Rajghat**, **ND*** * * ****WORK FIELDS --- Decentralized Economy, Social Democracy, Water Issues, Education, Human Values, Decentralized & Local Technology, Street Play, Tribal Solutions, Social Corporate systems, Alternative Writings.* "Any social organization is gradually formed by the society." Most of the successful social organizations of the past, I believe, were initiated by the educated youth, who had an alternate identity for themselves and it slowly progressed towards the common man in due course of time. If social organizations can be successful in that way, why shouldn't BM succeed in the same way? There may be/ are initial teething problems which nobody is going to deny but why shouldn't they be resolved? It is true that people who are a part of BM do belong to diverse backgrounds and may be striving to acquire a professional identity for themselves. But we are bound together by only common idea of working for the betterment of the society and realizing the dream of a developed India. The processes we adopt towards the goals may be error ridden but that in no way is an indication of shortness of commitment or dedication. When somebody becomes the full-time member after a few years, at that time there would be more fresh members who are striving to acquire for an identity for themselves and at the same time get associated with BM and the process is continuous. IF IDEAS CAN BE HELD AS THE FOUNDATION TO WHAT EVER MANKIND HAS ACHIEVED THEN THE IDEAS WE HAVE CONCEIVED IN BM WILL TAKE US IN THE RIGHT PATH TOWARDS OUR ULTIMATE GOAL AND IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE WE OVERCOME THE PROBLEMS. Jai hind surendran PS: I am neither a academic/scholar nor an experienced writer but I have tried my level best to put my ideas into words so that it could convey the message what I wanted to. ============================================================================== You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BM_discussion" group. 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