Cheers, Allen.  I've been the beneficiary of lots of good info on this list...
bmc
On Mar 3, 2011, at 4:10 PM, Allen Worrall wrote:

> Thanks Ben for this very helpful discussion. You have enhanced my 
> understanding of espresso brewing by a great deal.
> 
> Allen
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Benjamin McCafferty
> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 12:29 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Newbie Question #2
> 
> Hi Allen (and Pete, some more thoughts for you),
> 
> I suppose you have a point there, so I broke out the calipers and did some 
> measuring.  I measured the difference between the bottom of the PF ears at 
> its thickest (fully engaged) and halfway across the ear (halfway engaged). I 
> don't consider less-than-halfway-engaged to be very safe, so didn't measure 
> that.
> 
> The casting is not precise, so the differential was anywhere from .2 mm to .5 
> mm between those two points.  Taking the worst case, that would mean the puck 
> was .5 mm closer at full lock than at half lock (6 o'clock vs. 7 o' clock).  
> For reference, a dime is measuring at 1.3 mm thick, so this is a bit more 
> than 1/3 of that thickness.
> 
> Personally, I doubt this makes a ton of difference, as long as you have a 
> reasonable grind/dose/tamp to begin with.  That said, many of us have used 
> the "dime test" in the past--grind/dose/tamp as usual, then place a dime in 
> the center of the puck.  Load the PF into the group, then carefully remove it 
> again.  Ideally, the dime will be lightly dented into the coffee, but not 
> submerged below the surface, if that makes sense.  So referencing the numbers 
> above, if the dime is barely denting vs. halfway into the puck, I doubt you'd 
> be able to taste a ton of difference, but probably someone on this list could!
> 
> Allen, as an aside--I would tend to agree with you regarding pitting on a 
> thin puck, but I don't see a difference in coffee on the screen--I get that 
> no matter what.  I will say for sure, however, that when I have things dialed 
> in well, my pucks in the knockbox are firm, somewhat pliable, and with the 
> dent from the screen center stud visible.  They don't crumble and they're not 
> sloppy wet.  They will frequently just stay on the knockbox crossbar, slight 
> bent around the bar, and not fall into the box.  It's a beautiful thing.
> 
> Pete, You can find a lot of past posts on dosing also, but there are two 
> basic philosophies--dosing by weight and dosing by volume.  By weight gives 
> you precise control over how much grind you put into a puck, i.e. you measure 
> out 14g or 20g or whatever and then grind it into the PF, distribute and 
> tamp.  Dosing by volume is easier, because you just grind into the PF, use 
> whatever distribution method suits you, then level off the basket before 
> tamping.  Dosing by volume also accounts for the fact that different roast 
> levels weigh different amounts for a given volume--i.e. a dark roasted bean 
> is lighter in weight than a light roasted bean.  So by volume you will always 
> have the puck be approximately the same thickness.  By weight will give you a 
> more "known" starting point when you're trying to dial in a specific roast or 
> blend that you'll be using again and again.  Members of this list get amazing 
> shots both ways; I dosed by weight for a long time then switched to volume a 
> couple of years ago, and have been very happy with both--I'm just lazy and 
> like the convenience of volume.  When I really want to work on a specific 
> coffee, though, I use weight to really split hairs.
> 
> Regarding puck thickness, you will also see a dented line in the PF basket 
> (at least on the double basket), and that is a "dosing line".  The puck 
> should ideally come to about the bottom of that line in order to have a good 
> dime test and a good pull.  Obviously if you dose by weight you will vary 
> widely from that line, but not to worry--you will be using taste to guide 
> you, and your main adjustment will be +/- weight, with minor tweaks in grind. 
>  Dosing by volume you will most always hit that line more or less dead on, 
> and then your adjustment will be the coarseness of the grind instead.
> 
> While I strongly support your efforts to dial in the precision/science 
> aspects of the machine, I would also suggest that espresso is a dance.  You 
> are dealing with at least five variables at a time, and you usually won't 
> have perfect control over all of them.  I can think of: coffee blend, roast 
> level, bean age, grind, distribution, tamp, relative humidity, brew pressure, 
> brew temperature, water hardness, etc. etc.  In the beginning, try to use a 
> single coffee over and over and try to only change one thing at a time until 
> you understand what that change means.  Over time, you will find that it will 
> become second nature to move with the weather, the roast, the age of the 
> beans, etc., and you will only waste maybe a shot or two before you hit a 
> good combination for that day.  Just avoid the temptation to start tweaking 
> everything at once, i.e. "that sucked, maybe I'll drop brew temperature, 
> grind finer, use more coffee, and tamp harder!"  If it ends up being a great 
> shot, you have no idea what change made the difference.
> 
> One other word of caution is to ignore "absolute" advice.  There are some 
> good guidelines out there, but they are just that--guidelines.  For example, 
> the "golden rule" states that a good espresso pull with yield 2-2.5 ounces of 
> espresso in 25 seconds or so.  While this works out very well sometimes, I 
> will also say that the very best shots I've ever produced have included some 
> that yielded 1.5 ounces in 40-50 seconds.  Does that make the shots bad?  No. 
>  They tasted amazing, and so I did something right.  The "rules" will give 
> you an approximate starting point, but your unique set of variables will be 
> different than anyone else's.
> 
> A few things that made immediate, dramatic improvements in my shots:
> 
> --Get a tamper made, that fits your PF basket precisely.  This will more or 
> less eliminate side channeling (and don't try to polish with the Thor, it 
> will wreck your puck).  http://www.thortamper.com/
> 
> --Use the Weiss Distribution Technique.  I use a stainless canning funnel 
> (ebay) instead of the yogurt container.  I cannot stress enough how dramatic 
> of an improvement this was. My "needle" is an easter egg dipper with the 
> small end cut off, or an unfolded paper clip in a pinch.  :) 
> http://www.home-barista.com/weiss-distribution-technique.html
> 
> --Home roasting (I use 70% decaf and it is cost-prohibitive to get this fresh 
> enough for decent shots in pre-roasted form--4 days old or less).
> 
> --Lower brew pressure--9 bar or so with a blind PF, 8.5 bar or so during 
> brewing.  I have found higher pressures (12 bar) to be too high and hard to 
> overcome channeling.
> 
> Everything else has seemed to be variable, based on coffee type, roast level, 
> etc.
> 
> Anyway, not sure how I got off on this (very long) tangent, but I guess it's 
> a metaphor for the whole process.  :)  Enjoy the new machine and hit us with 
> questions anytime.  Hope you're getting some good shots already!  I am 
> eagerly awaiting my PID and rotary pump conversion kits, which will arrive 
> next week.
> 
> best,
> Ben McC
> Seattle, WA
> 
> On Mar 3, 2011, at 11:26 AM, Allen Worrall wrote:
> 
>> Ben, does the position of the handle have any influence on the distance 
>> between the screen and the packed coffee? And if so, does this have any 
>> significance? I have the impression that if I let the space between the 
>> screen and the coffee become too large, (by not using enough coffee volume, 
>> which in turn is affected by the grind) after the pour the surface of the 
>> coffee puck is eroded and pitted, and there is lots of coffee on the screen.
>> 
>> Allen, in Fairbanks, Alaska (But in May moving to Lakewood, WA, near Tacoma 
>> and Seattle, so maybe we will meet someday at an espresso conference).
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: bmacpiper
>> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 7:46 AM
>> To: Brewtus
>> Subject: Re: Newbie Question #2
>> 
>> Hey Pete,
>> 
>> If your machine arrived really cold, the gasket is just hard and will
>> soften at room temp and/or operating temp.  Also, the gasket comes in
>> various thicknesses, so you can always get a thinner one if you really
>> need to.  I use a Rancilio bottomless PF, and the 8.5mm thickness
>> gasket works fine for that and the original Brewtus PF.  Here is a
>> place to get gaskets (good to replace once or twice a year anyway):
>> 
>> http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/isomacparts/e61groupgasket
>> 
>> You would order one of the first three in the drop-down list.  I
>> believe the original on the B2 was 9mm, because when I got the
>> Rancilio, I could barely lock it into the group, and had to get a
>> thinner one.  As an aside, there is no "correct" position for your PF--
>> the basket is round, so it makes absolutely no difference where the
>> handle is in that respect.  Your primary concern is that the PF gets
>> locked in securely, so that it doesn't come loose under pressure and
>> shower you with near-boiling water/coffee.  I have used machines that
>> barely got to the 7 o'clock position, and were totally fine, but
>> obviously getting towards 6 o'clock gives you better/full engagement
>> of the ears on the PF into the group.  Just don't yard on the PF
>> handle--it is unnecessary.  A good firm twist is plenty--if you're
>> moving the machine, you're pulling too hard.
>> 
>> Since we're talking about changing gaskets, I'll mention to you that
>> changing your group screen once or twice a year is another easy and
>> cheap way of keeping your shots top notch.  This is a part that can't
>> be cleaned effectively, and over time builds up crud.  Search my
>> previous post on this, and there are pictures in the gallery of a
>> screen that I tore apart after significant cleaning, i.e. more than an
>> hour soaking in Cafiza.  The pictures speak for themselves.  (The post
>> is here, fourth one down with my name on it:
>> http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus/browse_thread/thread/d1731f9f2ad64ac0/4989e48d94e67cdd?lnk=gst&q=bmacpiper+screen#4989e48d94e67cdd
>> )
>> 
>> Screens here, use the first one in the drop-down list:
>> 
>> http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/isomacparts/faemae61groupscreen
>> 
>> best,
>> Ben McCafferty
>> Seattle, WA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Brewtus" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>> [email protected].
>> For more options, visit this group at 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus?hl=en.
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Brewtus" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>> [email protected].
>> For more options, visit this group at 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus?hl=en.
>> 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Brewtus" group.
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> [email protected].
> For more options, visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus?hl=en. 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Brewtus" group.
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> [email protected].
> For more options, visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus?hl=en.
> 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Brewtus" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus?hl=en.

Reply via email to