Graeme Original Message From: John Brinkman Sent: Monday, 25 August 2014 23:12 To: [email protected] Reply To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Suspected Brew Group Boiler Element
Ok, so still without coffee, luckily I have a moca pot so still able to make something resembling an espresso. I swapped the wires around on the pressure stat so that I am not heating up the steam boiler all the time before I can see if anything is working. I also short circuited the SSR so that the brew boiler element is on no matter what the PID thinks it is doing, still no heat in the brew boiler however so I assume the boiler element is stuffed. I do have a spare element and measured the resistance on it and it is sitting at 44Ohms so not much different from the element in the boiler (47Ohms). I reckon I am going to have to take it in tomorrow to get it checked by a proffessional to find out what I am missing out. JohnB On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 5:12 PM, John Brinkman <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks Graeme > > That makes sense, will measure the voltage across the switch, > hopefully I can drink some coffee soon :-) > > Regards > > JohnB > > On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Graeme Burton <[email protected]> wrote: >> Sounds good on element. >> >> Power goes to common terminal of switch on p-stat. When steam boiler is cold >> the switch will feed current from the common to the normally closed contact. >> When the steam pressure is high enough the switch opens and then current is >> directed through the normally open contact to the brew element and assuming >> the PID is calling for heat it will cross the SSR output and feed the brew >> element. >> >> Need to measure volts at the switch terminals. >> >> >> >> >> On 24 Aug 2014, at 10:04 pm, John Brinkman <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> 47ohms resistance on the element so I assume that means that it is ok. >>> >>> Is a 220V 1400watt element >>> >>> How does the priority switching for the power work? >>> >>> From what I understand it powers the steam boiler first and the brew >>> boiler second, is it possible for it to get stuck just running the >>> steam boiler and not switching to the brew boiler when the >>> pressurestat kicks out? >>> >>> JohnB >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Graeme Burton <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>> Hi John, >>>> >>>> Only things left then are the p-stat switch and the element. I suggest you >>>> power off, disconnect a leg of the element and measure ohms across the >>>> element. You shoud have something like 20-40 ohms (not sure what power the >>>> element is). >>>> >>>> Graeme >>>> >>>> On 24 Aug 2014, at 9:32 pm, John Brinkman <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Graeme >>>>> >>>>> The steam boiler is working 100%, heats up no problem, no heat however >>>>> at the brew boiler. >>>>> >>>>> The machine is a Brewtus III-R with the blue PID. >>>>> >>>>> PID appears to be indicating the correct brew group temp and has the >>>>> light on to indicate it is requesting heater to work. >>>>> >>>>> When the machine initially went faulty the brew temp went up to 99C, I >>>>> assume because the relay got suck on, I switched the machine off and >>>>> the temp then dropped. I am not sure if perhaps something else was >>>>> damaged >>>>> >>>>> I replaced the PID and SSR but it is still not working. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Graeme Burton <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hi John, >>>>>> >>>>>> I guess you are sure there is no relay between PID output and the brew >>>>>> boiler? >>>>>> >>>>>> Contacts on the steam boiler p-stat enable and disable the brew element >>>>>> as I am sure you know. Are you able to confirm this is working properly >>>>>> - ie you have mains voltage on the p-stat normally open contact when the >>>>>> steam boiler has heated up? >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have mains voltage at one side of the element then if element OK >>>>>> you will have mains voltage at the other side. Can also measure >>>>>> resitivity of the element (disconnect a leg first and with power off of >>>>>> course). >>>>>> >>>>>> Graeme >>>>>> >>>>>> On 24 Aug 2014, at 4:49 am, John Brinkman <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Will check it out Benjamin >>>>>>> d >>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 23, 2014 at 10:14 PM, Benjamin McCafferty >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> I guess I'd check at the inputs to the boiler--if there's current >>>>>>>> there, and no heat, then my thought is that the element is bad. >>>>>>>> Kitt? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Aug 23, 2014, at 13:06, John Brinkman <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi All >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So I swapped a new PID in place of the old one and the brew boilder is >>>>>>>>> still not heating up. >>>>>>>>> Temp is displaying correctly and the dot is lighting up to indicate it >>>>>>>>> should be heating up the boiler but no change in temp. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Obviously there is a problem somewhere else. What can I check to try >>>>>>>>> and problem solve this, any suggestions? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I do have a multimeter. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> JohnB >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 6:34 PM, Michael Endacott >>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I've got wiring diagrams for the pid upgrade from WLL, I used them to >>>>>>>>>> understand the wiring but it's pretty simple stuff. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> the thing that confuses me is I thought all Gicar pids have to use >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> external SSR to control the boilers due to the amp requirement? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 22 August 2014 15:08, John Brinkman <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Michael >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> what a coincidence, I have one of those on order from eBay already >>>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>> I am building a sous-vide cooker for home using it :-) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The one they gave me however is a 90-240AC input voltage, so I am >>>>>>>>>>> assuming that they connected it to the PID instead of the element >>>>>>>>>>> connection somehow. Just not sure exactly how to do it and don't >>>>>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>>>>> to blow things up messing with the 220V if I don't know what I am >>>>>>>>>>> doing. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> JohnB >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 2:21 PM, Michael Endacott >>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> This is the one I bought when I upgraded to Gicar PID and SSR >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400380577295?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Key spec is >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Items: Solid State Relay >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Model: SSR-25 AA >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Input voltage: 80-250VAC >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Output voltage: 24-380VAC >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Output current: 25A >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Working voltage: 250V >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 22 August 2014 12:54, John Brinkman <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> They gave me a Crouzet SSR, I believe this is the one that is >>>>>>>>>>>>> supplied >>>>>>>>>>>>> by WLL as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone have the WLL installation sheet? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> JohnB >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 1:34 PM, John Brinkman >>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting, I went to the suppliers to pick up a replacment >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gicar >>>>>>>>>>>>>> PID >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and they advised that I install an external SSR as well to take >>>>>>>>>>>>>> over >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the one in the PID. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately non of their techies were there so not sure >>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly how >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to install it. Also trying to work out if I can just desolder the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> faulty SSR on the existing one and wire in the new one for that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (much >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bigger than the small existing chip) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any suggestions? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> JohnB >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 8:33 AM, John Brinkman >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ahhh, will take it apart and have a look Graeme. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the suggestion. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JohnB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 4:17 AM, Graeme Burton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi John, I think all b3 came with an external ssr in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Australia. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may be able to replace the relay in the PID if you can find one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that matches >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the pcb holes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Graeme >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: John Brinkman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 22 August 2014 01:21 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reply To: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Suspected Brew Group Boiler Element >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you are right Graeme, any way to fix a faulty relay in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PID >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or must I just replace? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I spoke to the local agent they said that they are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> installing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> external SSR on the PID's as they have had quite a lot of them >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> failing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JohnB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Graeme Burton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sounds more like a u/s solid state relay - sticking off and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Could >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also be the relay in the pid controller sticking. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Graeme >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: John Brinkman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 21 August 2014 22:26 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reply To: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Suspected Brew Group Boiler Element >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Guys >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a Brewtus III PID with a rotary pump/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Woke up this morning to my brew group boiler showing 99C, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> started >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pulling a shot to check and was flash steaming as the water >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> came >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so suspect the reading was correct (set temp is 90c). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pulled some water through it for about 60 seconds and the temp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> started >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dropping. I switched my machine off left it for about 30 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minutes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switched it on again. Steam pressure came up and the light >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> steam boiler went of, brew temp was sitting at 70c and the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> light >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the PID was indicating that it was powering the brew element >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is no rise in temp. I switched the machine off altogether and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> left >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the whole day, brew temp has dropped down to 30c when I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and does not rise at all. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would I be correct in assuming that this is probably a faulty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brew >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group element? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anything else I should heck before dismantelling? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks JohnB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at 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