Hopefully I'll get the chance to pull it apart and check and see what controller I have. I do know there's a black box under the display on the face of the machine. I'm guessing that's what you're talking about I'm wondering if the sensor in the steam boiler could be bad? I was hoping Todd would jump in but I'll try WLL again tomorrow I guess. Thanks for the help and for the invoice. Maybe if I tear into the machine again tomorrow I will see something. H
On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 8:44 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> wrote: > Inline below. > best, > bmc > > Sent from my apple IIe > > On Jan 5, 2016, at 15:30, herman dickens <[email protected]> wrote: > > Ben the pump is 2 or 3 months old and I have it set to 10.5 bar with a > blind portafilter. It gets there pretty quick so I don't think that's the > problem. > > --That's pretty high; I doubt it's the problem, but I wonder if that is > enough pressure to keep the solenoid from opening and letting the steam > boiler fill. Still seems like it would open once you were not pulling > shots. In any case, I'd set the blind pressure down to 9, shooting for > about 8.5 when pulling a shot. > > I'm guessing the element is like one in a water heater and you're correct > that it either works or doesn't. > > --Yes. It's just a copper coil. > > I think you're right about a lack of water in the tank. After the cool > down the pump ran a long time before it cut off. Not sure why leaving it > plugged in caused this to happen or even if that had anything to do with > it. > > --I doubt it had anything to do with it. Probably the cooling and heating > cycle was what "fixed" whatever was wrong. > > Will the pid kit fix the controller part? > > --No. You have a controller from Gicar (either the old red two-digit one > or the blue PID one), and a separate control box from Giemme (it's the > black box mounted front left below the Gicar one). The Giemme has relays > in it and controls the pump and I think the solenoid as well. > > Do you still have the part number for the solenoid? Not sure why I put > relay it's the overtemp switch but I'm guessing that when the switch kicked > the time before it was the same cause. If the tank was low and the pump > didn't come on what would cause that? > > --Still not sure, and that's the main question here. In my case, the > Giemme had one of the two relays that was clearly burning out--the clear > blue housing had black inside it, etc. for that set of points. I'm trying > to recall without reading all my old posts, but I'm almost certain that my > failure this summer was the pump failing to run. I think I still got water > in the steam boiler because I am plumbed in with 60psi of pressure in the > line, and so when the solenoid opened, I think the boiler filled without > the pump and I didn't know it. On a vibe pump this wouldn't happen. I > also could pull shots because the lever switch overrides the Giemme and > makes the pump run--basically hard wires it. The pump only runs for the > steam boiler when the giemme tells it too, and the giemme also opens the > solenoid at the same time. When the water reaches the probe in the steam > boiler, the giemme reverses both of these things (pump and solenoid). At > least that is my understanding and empirical results. > > I will dig up the invoice for all these parts and it will have the part > numbers on it. My money is on the giemme. You can pull it out really > easily and slip the case off of it; then you can see the relay points as a > first easy thing to look at. > > Wish I had a more definitive answer for you. > b > > Thanks for your ideas. > h > > On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 5:05 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Hey Herman, >> Puzzling over your questions a bit this afternoon. >> >> Backing into it--you said the "relay" on the steam boiler--do you mean >> the small switch on the top of the boiler? If so, that's an over-temp >> switch, and I'd agree it points to the boiler being dry or mostly dry. >> Here's my thought process: >> For whatever reason, the boiler didn't refill for your first day of >> trouble, but there was still a bit of water, maybe just enough to produce a >> little steam, but it took a long time due to little or no immersion of the >> heat element. The next time, the element kept heating, trying to achieve >> steam pressure, and since no steam was being produced, the element >> overheated and popped the overlimit switch (which I think you just >> replaced, didn't you?). >> >> If all this is true, then the problem would be why the boiler isn't >> filling. Given my recent trials and tribulations, I'd guess one of a few >> things. >> >> --The solenoid is, by default, sending water to the brew group; when the >> steam boiler calls for water the solenoid opens and lets water bypass into >> the steam boiler until it hits the probe to turn off the pump and close the >> solenoid. So, the solenoid could be sticking, or the giemme controller >> could be dying. I had BOTH of these happen this year, not at the same >> time. The new solenoid is nearly silent; the old one was very loud, even >> before it started chattering near the end. >> >> --Perhaps the pump is weak/dying? Easy check on that would be to >> pressurize against a blind PF to see if you're getting good pressure from >> the pump. Also, try pulling the white wire off the top of the boiler that >> sets water level. The pump should run and solenoid should open, and then >> stop when you replace it. Just a quick check on the solenoid and pump >> functions. >> >> --Perhaps the system had air in it? I don't recall if you're plumbed or >> pour-over; if the latter, maybe check that your intake line isn't floating >> and re-prime with the turkey baster trick. Maybe it got prime overnight >> when it was working fine the next day. >> >> As to why it worked again the next day--this happened many times with my >> machine this summer and winter before final failure of the various parts. >> And was maddening as hell. A stuck solenoid that was warm would unstick >> when the machine cooled, only to stick again, etc. etc. >> >> I'm not sure, but I don't think the heating element will be a partial >> failure--I think it tends to work or not work, but others may correct me on >> that. You can easily test ohms on it with power wires disconnected and I >> think water out of the boiler. Something like 13 or 14 is good, if memory >> serves. >> >> If you do replace the elements, you can do it with the boilers in the >> machine, so long as you can get an impact wrench (but you do risk spinning >> the boiler and wrecking the copper tubes attached. Probably safer to pull >> them and use a jig in a vice to keep from bending them, and doesn't take >> all that much more time. If you have no jig, you can get away with only >> clamping on the end of the boiler where the element is, i.e. so you're >> clamping across the base which has more structure than the middle. Still a >> bit sketchy though. >> >> I replaced my solenoid last weekend (update to follow) and it took me >> about 1.5 hours to pull the steam boiler assembly, replace the solenoid, >> and replace the assembly. It's not a terrible process. >> >> Anyway, hope this helps lead you in the direction of a working repair. >> >> best, >> bmc >> Sent from my apple IIe >> >> On Jan 5, 2016, at 13:40, herman dickens <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Any ideas? Todd? The machine is working great today as well but I know >> it's a matter of time until it fails again. >> >> On Monday, January 4, 2016 at 2:35:03 PM UTC-5, herman dickens wrote: >>> >>> Hi all. My brewtus was working fine up until this morning. I was making >>> a latte and the steam pressure went almost to zero with the red light still >>> on. It took a while to heat the milk with no microfoam. I was in a hurry >>> and forgot about it until lunch and tried to make another latte. Same thing >>> happened. If I turned the steam wand off the pressure would build back up >>> but it was slow. After trying to use it for 5 or 10 minutes it popped the >>> relay on the steam boiler. Any ideas other than the steam element? If I >>> have to pull it apart to change that element I will also replace the brew >>> element at the same time. Thanks for any advice. >>> Herman >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Brewtus" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Brewtus" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Brewtus" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Brewtus" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Brewtus" group. 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