Thanks Ben. I'm guessing it's the controller that's causing the issue then. It almost has to be that or the solenoid. I'm going to call Wll and see if I can get the parts on order and shipped. I'll probably go ahead and replace the elements while I'm at it and do the pid at the same time.I have a strap wrench so I can probably hold the boilers in place an screw the elements out with an air wrench. If not I can pull them and clamp them in a vice. When I'm finished hopefully it will be as good as new. Thanks for all of the info it has helped tremendously! Herman
On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 12:31 AM, Ben McCafferty <[email protected]> wrote: > Yes, the black box is the giemme, and the display is the gicar. > The sensor in the steam boiler is just a metal rod, I don't think it can > really go bad. Perhaps if it was totally scaled? But doubtful. All it > really does is short circuit to the water which stops the pump. > > Best, > bmc > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 5, 2016, at 19:02, herman dickens <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hopefully I'll get the chance to pull it apart and check and see what > controller I have. I do know there's a black box under the display on the > face of the machine. I'm guessing that's what you're talking about I'm > wondering if the sensor in the steam boiler could be bad? I was hoping Todd > would jump in but I'll try WLL again tomorrow I guess. Thanks for the help > and for the invoice. Maybe if I tear into the machine again tomorrow I will > see something. > H > > On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 8:44 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Inline below. >> best, >> bmc >> >> Sent from my apple IIe >> >> On Jan 5, 2016, at 15:30, herman dickens <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Ben the pump is 2 or 3 months old and I have it set to 10.5 bar with a >> blind portafilter. It gets there pretty quick so I don't think that's the >> problem. >> >> --That's pretty high; I doubt it's the problem, but I wonder if that is >> enough pressure to keep the solenoid from opening and letting the steam >> boiler fill. Still seems like it would open once you were not pulling >> shots. In any case, I'd set the blind pressure down to 9, shooting for >> about 8.5 when pulling a shot. >> >> I'm guessing the element is like one in a water heater and you're correct >> that it either works or doesn't. >> >> --Yes. It's just a copper coil. >> >> I think you're right about a lack of water in the tank. After the cool >> down the pump ran a long time before it cut off. Not sure why leaving it >> plugged in caused this to happen or even if that had anything to do with >> it. >> >> --I doubt it had anything to do with it. Probably the cooling and >> heating cycle was what "fixed" whatever was wrong. >> >> Will the pid kit fix the controller part? >> >> --No. You have a controller from Gicar (either the old red two-digit one >> or the blue PID one), and a separate control box from Giemme (it's the >> black box mounted front left below the Gicar one). The Giemme has relays >> in it and controls the pump and I think the solenoid as well. >> >> Do you still have the part number for the solenoid? Not sure why I put >> relay it's the overtemp switch but I'm guessing that when the switch kicked >> the time before it was the same cause. If the tank was low and the pump >> didn't come on what would cause that? >> >> --Still not sure, and that's the main question here. In my case, the >> Giemme had one of the two relays that was clearly burning out--the clear >> blue housing had black inside it, etc. for that set of points. I'm trying >> to recall without reading all my old posts, but I'm almost certain that my >> failure this summer was the pump failing to run. I think I still got water >> in the steam boiler because I am plumbed in with 60psi of pressure in the >> line, and so when the solenoid opened, I think the boiler filled without >> the pump and I didn't know it. On a vibe pump this wouldn't happen. I >> also could pull shots because the lever switch overrides the Giemme and >> makes the pump run--basically hard wires it. The pump only runs for the >> steam boiler when the giemme tells it too, and the giemme also opens the >> solenoid at the same time. When the water reaches the probe in the steam >> boiler, the giemme reverses both of these things (pump and solenoid). At >> least that is my understanding and empirical results. >> >> I will dig up the invoice for all these parts and it will have the part >> numbers on it. My money is on the giemme. You can pull it out really >> easily and slip the case off of it; then you can see the relay points as a >> first easy thing to look at. >> >> Wish I had a more definitive answer for you. >> b >> >> Thanks for your ideas. >> h >> >> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 5:05 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Hey Herman, >>> Puzzling over your questions a bit this afternoon. >>> >>> Backing into it--you said the "relay" on the steam boiler--do you mean >>> the small switch on the top of the boiler? If so, that's an over-temp >>> switch, and I'd agree it points to the boiler being dry or mostly dry. >>> Here's my thought process: >>> For whatever reason, the boiler didn't refill for your first day of >>> trouble, but there was still a bit of water, maybe just enough to produce a >>> little steam, but it took a long time due to little or no immersion of the >>> heat element. The next time, the element kept heating, trying to achieve >>> steam pressure, and since no steam was being produced, the element >>> overheated and popped the overlimit switch (which I think you just >>> replaced, didn't you?). >>> >>> If all this is true, then the problem would be why the boiler isn't >>> filling. Given my recent trials and tribulations, I'd guess one of a few >>> things. >>> >>> --The solenoid is, by default, sending water to the brew group; when the >>> steam boiler calls for water the solenoid opens and lets water bypass into >>> the steam boiler until it hits the probe to turn off the pump and close the >>> solenoid. So, the solenoid could be sticking, or the giemme controller >>> could be dying. I had BOTH of these happen this year, not at the same >>> time. The new solenoid is nearly silent; the old one was very loud, even >>> before it started chattering near the end. >>> >>> --Perhaps the pump is weak/dying? Easy check on that would be to >>> pressurize against a blind PF to see if you're getting good pressure from >>> the pump. Also, try pulling the white wire off the top of the boiler that >>> sets water level. The pump should run and solenoid should open, and then >>> stop when you replace it. Just a quick check on the solenoid and pump >>> functions. >>> >>> --Perhaps the system had air in it? I don't recall if you're plumbed or >>> pour-over; if the latter, maybe check that your intake line isn't floating >>> and re-prime with the turkey baster trick. Maybe it got prime overnight >>> when it was working fine the next day. >>> >>> As to why it worked again the next day--this happened many times with my >>> machine this summer and winter before final failure of the various parts. >>> And was maddening as hell. A stuck solenoid that was warm would unstick >>> when the machine cooled, only to stick again, etc. etc. >>> >>> I'm not sure, but I don't think the heating element will be a partial >>> failure--I think it tends to work or not work, but others may correct me on >>> that. You can easily test ohms on it with power wires disconnected and I >>> think water out of the boiler. Something like 13 or 14 is good, if memory >>> serves. >>> >>> If you do replace the elements, you can do it with the boilers in the >>> machine, so long as you can get an impact wrench (but you do risk spinning >>> the boiler and wrecking the copper tubes attached. Probably safer to pull >>> them and use a jig in a vice to keep from bending them, and doesn't take >>> all that much more time. If you have no jig, you can get away with only >>> clamping on the end of the boiler where the element is, i.e. so you're >>> clamping across the base which has more structure than the middle. Still a >>> bit sketchy though. >>> >>> I replaced my solenoid last weekend (update to follow) and it took me >>> about 1.5 hours to pull the steam boiler assembly, replace the solenoid, >>> and replace the assembly. It's not a terrible process. >>> >>> Anyway, hope this helps lead you in the direction of a working repair. >>> >>> best, >>> bmc >>> Sent from my apple IIe >>> >>> On Jan 5, 2016, at 13:40, herman dickens <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Any ideas? Todd? The machine is working great today as well but I know >>> it's a matter of time until it fails again. >>> >>> On Monday, January 4, 2016 at 2:35:03 PM UTC-5, herman dickens wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all. My brewtus was working fine up until this morning. I was making >>>> a latte and the steam pressure went almost to zero with the red light still >>>> on. It took a while to heat the milk with no microfoam. I was in a hurry >>>> and forgot about it until lunch and tried to make another latte. Same thing >>>> happened. If I turned the steam wand off the pressure would build back up >>>> but it was slow. After trying to use it for 5 or 10 minutes it popped the >>>> relay on the steam boiler. Any ideas other than the steam element? If I >>>> have to pull it apart to change that element I will also replace the brew >>>> element at the same time. Thanks for any advice. >>>> Herman >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Brewtus" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Brewtus" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Brewtus" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Brewtus" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Brewtus" group. 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