Yep, my same experience re: engines. Miss those days! Agreed on the "throwing parts at it" idea; if it's any consolation, you can look at my 2915 and know that they're all going to need replacement pretty soon anyway, most likely! :) There is a guy near me in WA that tests and repairs the giemme boards and others, but his fee to repair the giemme is more than a new one, so he said "not worth it". He also sells super high end burrs for many grinders, as an aside.
The pressure thing makes no sense to me--the grind/coffee doesn't care what type of pump is pushing water through it, you know? Ideal pressure is ideal pressure. I think you'll find many repetitions of the 8.5/9 bar thing in these archives, I think even from Todd, but I can't point to a specific thread to be sure. In any case, 1 bar shouldn't make a huge difference, but at times people have posted here that think 12 bar is a good idea, etc. which it isn't. To your point, I'm guessing the spring on the opv and the pressure meter both probably have errors bigger than that anyway! :) As the old BMW motorcycle engineers used to call it, "The sum of unfavorable tolerances". Love that. Best, bmc Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 6, 2016, at 08:56, herman dickens <[email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks Ben. I keep thinking maybe I should have thrown in the towel as well > but then I get it fixed and typically it goes a long while before breaking > again. I'm sure that whatever is causing this has been the root cause of most > of the problems I've had lately. I hate throwing parts at a problem but I > also hate to have it fail and wait a week or two for parts. I may be smarter > to just wait and let it fail rather than pull the whole thing apart and > replace parts that are working fine. I built engines for a while and learned > a lot about parts wearing in. I had a 1980 bronco that blew a rear main > bearing seal under warranty. I was at the dealership when they pulled the > rear cap off and noticed the mechanic had a new rear bearing on the table. > When I asked him he said he was going to replace that too "just in case". I > looked at the old bearing and it was fine and told him to reuse it. He argued > but finally did it. I never had trouble with that engine again and sold it > with over 250,000 miles on it. A friend of mine had the same trouble and they > replaced his bearing and several years later is seized. Not sure if wearing > in had anything to do with it but that's what I think happened. Sometimes if > you take something apart and change the orientation the wear surfaces will > cause a problem. > Ben on the vibe pump machines I think the pressure with a blind pf is > supposed to be 10 and the brew pressure 9. With my opv it's 10 one time and > 10.5 or thereabouts the next time but I'm getting 9 when I pull a shot. Todd > told me that years ago and I looked it up again in the manual and that's what > it says there too. The lower pressure is for the rotary machine. I have no > idea why there is a difference. > Herman > >> On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 11:32 AM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> The strap wrench might work. You'll have to pull the steam boiler for the >> solenoid anyway, and by then the brew boiler is pretty simple as well. >> >> The solenoid is an interesting question. Mine was 8 years old and >> chattering badly, but I never had an issue with it until I disassembled this >> summer and descaled (at least that's how I remember it). The solenoid >> piston had some buildup on it, which I cleaned completely and the seals were >> fine. I sort of wonder about it and it reminds me of the automotive world >> where they talk about "wear groups" or similar--the idea being two parts >> that have worn in to each other in a specific way, and so moving them around >> causes problems. And example being pushrods or maybe cylinder valves. My >> point is, I wonder if the mineral buildup on the piston wore away metal over >> time on the brass that is moves within, and when I removed the scale, it >> allowed slop that let the piston get sort of skewed and causing >> sticking/chattering. I know this is all sort of silly, but it's just stuff >> I think about. In any case, the new solenoid/piston works flawlessly and >> nearly silently, so problem solved. >> >> I hate to say it, but as I think back over my troubles this past year, the >> technician in me says "highly unlikely to have multiple failures at once", >> but the reality of it is that I had all of the following fail within a few >> months: >> High limit switch >> Heating element >> PID display/thermostat >> Giemme controller >> Solenoid >> Power switch >> Pressure stat >> >> I've thought about throwing in the towel a few times, but by now, I have >> replaced almost every electrical part on the machine and so I hope I'm good >> to go for another good long time, with the expected failure of pstat from >> time to time, and the remaining element. Not to mention the pump is now 5 >> years old...sigh. Apparently the solid state relay almost never fails, so >> I'm told by WLL. >> >> One other tip--the sealant you get from WLL is really great stuff--super >> easy to use and sets fast. I learned the hard way the other day, when >> working on a hot machine, that it sets almost instantly on hot metal. I had >> a fitting 90 degrees from where I needed it and the stuff was set. So had >> to break that loose again, clean, let cool, and redo. So if you have to >> work hot, use extra of it and work really fast, have all wrenches ready, etc. >> >> Ah well, keep the faith, you'll find it. >> >> b >> >> Sent from my apple IIe >> >>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 06:18, herman dickens <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Ben. I'm guessing it's the controller that's causing the issue then. >>> It almost has to be that or the solenoid. I'm going to call Wll and see if >>> I can get the parts on order and shipped. I'll probably go ahead and >>> replace the elements while I'm at it and do the pid at the same time.I have >>> a strap wrench so I can probably hold the boilers in place an screw the >>> elements out with an air wrench. If not I can pull them and clamp them in a >>> vice. When I'm finished hopefully it will be as good as new. Thanks for all >>> of the info it has helped tremendously! >>> Herman >>> >>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 12:31 AM, Ben McCafferty <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Yes, the black box is the giemme, and the display is the gicar. >>>> The sensor in the steam boiler is just a metal rod, I don't think it can >>>> really go bad. Perhaps if it was totally scaled? But doubtful. All it >>>> really does is short circuit to the water which stops the pump. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> bmc >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Jan 5, 2016, at 19:02, herman dickens <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hopefully I'll get the chance to pull it apart and check and see what >>>>> controller I have. I do know there's a black box under the display on the >>>>> face of the machine. I'm guessing that's what you're talking about I'm >>>>> wondering if the sensor in the steam boiler could be bad? I was hoping >>>>> Todd would jump in but I'll try WLL again tomorrow I guess. Thanks for >>>>> the help and for the invoice. Maybe if I tear into the machine again >>>>> tomorrow I will see something. >>>>> H >>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 8:44 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Inline below. >>>>>> best, >>>>>> bmc >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 5, 2016, at 15:30, herman dickens <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ben the pump is 2 or 3 months old and I have it set to 10.5 bar with a >>>>>>> blind portafilter. It gets there pretty quick so I don't think that's >>>>>>> the problem. >>>>>> --That's pretty high; I doubt it's the problem, but I wonder if that is >>>>>> enough pressure to keep the solenoid from opening and letting the steam >>>>>> boiler fill. Still seems like it would open once you were not pulling >>>>>> shots. In any case, I'd set the blind pressure down to 9, shooting for >>>>>> about 8.5 when pulling a shot. >>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm guessing the element is like one in a water heater and you're >>>>>>> correct that it either works or doesn't. >>>>>> --Yes. It's just a copper coil. >>>>>> >>>>>>> I think you're right about a lack of water in the tank. After the cool >>>>>>> down the pump ran a long time before it cut off. Not sure why leaving >>>>>>> it plugged in caused this to happen or even if that had anything to do >>>>>>> with it. >>>>>> --I doubt it had anything to do with it. Probably the cooling and >>>>>> heating cycle was what "fixed" whatever was wrong. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Will the pid kit fix the controller part? >>>>>> --No. You have a controller from Gicar (either the old red two-digit >>>>>> one or the blue PID one), and a separate control box from Giemme (it's >>>>>> the black box mounted front left below the Gicar one). The Giemme has >>>>>> relays in it and controls the pump and I think the solenoid as well. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Do you still have the part number for the solenoid? Not sure why I put >>>>>>> relay it's the overtemp switch but I'm guessing that when the switch >>>>>>> kicked the time before it was the same cause. If the tank was low and >>>>>>> the pump didn't come on what would cause that? >>>>>> --Still not sure, and that's the main question here. In my case, the >>>>>> Giemme had one of the two relays that was clearly burning out--the clear >>>>>> blue housing had black inside it, etc. for that set of points. I'm >>>>>> trying to recall without reading all my old posts, but I'm almost >>>>>> certain that my failure this summer was the pump failing to run. I >>>>>> think I still got water in the steam boiler because I am plumbed in with >>>>>> 60psi of pressure in the line, and so when the solenoid opened, I think >>>>>> the boiler filled without the pump and I didn't know it. On a vibe pump >>>>>> this wouldn't happen. I also could pull shots because the lever switch >>>>>> overrides the Giemme and makes the pump run--basically hard wires it. >>>>>> The pump only runs for the steam boiler when the giemme tells it too, >>>>>> and the giemme also opens the solenoid at the same time. When the water >>>>>> reaches the probe in the steam boiler, the giemme reverses both of these >>>>>> things (pump and solenoid). At least that is my understanding and >>>>>> empirical results. >>>>>> >>>>>> I will dig up the invoice for all these parts and it will have the part >>>>>> numbers on it. My money is on the giemme. You can pull it out really >>>>>> easily and slip the case off of it; then you can see the relay points as >>>>>> a first easy thing to look at. >>>>>> >>>>>> Wish I had a more definitive answer for you. >>>>>> b >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for your ideas. >>>>>>> h >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 5:05 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hey Herman, >>>>>>>> Puzzling over your questions a bit this afternoon. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Backing into it--you said the "relay" on the steam boiler--do you mean >>>>>>>> the small switch on the top of the boiler? If so, that's an over-temp >>>>>>>> switch, and I'd agree it points to the boiler being dry or mostly dry. >>>>>>>> Here's my thought process: >>>>>>>> For whatever reason, the boiler didn't refill for your first day of >>>>>>>> trouble, but there was still a bit of water, maybe just enough to >>>>>>>> produce a little steam, but it took a long time due to little or no >>>>>>>> immersion of the heat element. The next time, the element kept >>>>>>>> heating, trying to achieve steam pressure, and since no steam was >>>>>>>> being produced, the element overheated and popped the overlimit switch >>>>>>>> (which I think you just replaced, didn't you?). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If all this is true, then the problem would be why the boiler isn't >>>>>>>> filling. Given my recent trials and tribulations, I'd guess one of a >>>>>>>> few things. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --The solenoid is, by default, sending water to the brew group; when >>>>>>>> the steam boiler calls for water the solenoid opens and lets water >>>>>>>> bypass into the steam boiler until it hits the probe to turn off the >>>>>>>> pump and close the solenoid. So, the solenoid could be sticking, or >>>>>>>> the giemme controller could be dying. I had BOTH of these happen this >>>>>>>> year, not at the same time. The new solenoid is nearly silent; the >>>>>>>> old one was very loud, even before it started chattering near the end. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --Perhaps the pump is weak/dying? Easy check on that would be to >>>>>>>> pressurize against a blind PF to see if you're getting good pressure >>>>>>>> from the pump. Also, try pulling the white wire off the top of the >>>>>>>> boiler that sets water level. The pump should run and solenoid should >>>>>>>> open, and then stop when you replace it. Just a quick check on the >>>>>>>> solenoid and pump functions. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --Perhaps the system had air in it? I don't recall if you're plumbed >>>>>>>> or pour-over; if the latter, maybe check that your intake line isn't >>>>>>>> floating and re-prime with the turkey baster trick. Maybe it got >>>>>>>> prime overnight when it was working fine the next day. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As to why it worked again the next day--this happened many times with >>>>>>>> my machine this summer and winter before final failure of the various >>>>>>>> parts. And was maddening as hell. A stuck solenoid that was warm >>>>>>>> would unstick when the machine cooled, only to stick again, etc. etc. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm not sure, but I don't think the heating element will be a partial >>>>>>>> failure--I think it tends to work or not work, but others may correct >>>>>>>> me on that. You can easily test ohms on it with power wires >>>>>>>> disconnected and I think water out of the boiler. Something like 13 >>>>>>>> or 14 is good, if memory serves. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you do replace the elements, you can do it with the boilers in the >>>>>>>> machine, so long as you can get an impact wrench (but you do risk >>>>>>>> spinning the boiler and wrecking the copper tubes attached. Probably >>>>>>>> safer to pull them and use a jig in a vice to keep from bending them, >>>>>>>> and doesn't take all that much more time. If you have no jig, you can >>>>>>>> get away with only clamping on the end of the boiler where the element >>>>>>>> is, i.e. so you're clamping across the base which has more structure >>>>>>>> than the middle. Still a bit sketchy though. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I replaced my solenoid last weekend (update to follow) and it took me >>>>>>>> about 1.5 hours to pull the steam boiler assembly, replace the >>>>>>>> solenoid, and replace the assembly. It's not a terrible process. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyway, hope this helps lead you in the direction of a working repair. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> best, >>>>>>>> bmc >>>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Jan 5, 2016, at 13:40, herman dickens <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Any ideas? Todd? The machine is working great today as well but I >>>>>>>>> know it's a matter of time until it fails again. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Monday, January 4, 2016 at 2:35:03 PM UTC-5, herman dickens wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi all. My brewtus was working fine up until this morning. I was >>>>>>>>>> making a latte and the steam pressure went almost to zero with the >>>>>>>>>> red light still on. It took a while to heat the milk with no >>>>>>>>>> microfoam. I was in a hurry and forgot about it until lunch and >>>>>>>>>> tried to make another latte. Same thing happened. If I turned the >>>>>>>>>> steam wand off the pressure would build back up but it was slow. >>>>>>>>>> After trying to use it for 5 or 10 minutes it popped the relay on >>>>>>>>>> the steam boiler. Any ideas other than the steam element? If I have >>>>>>>>>> to pull it apart to change that element I will also replace the brew >>>>>>>>>> element at the same time. Thanks for any advice. >>>>>>>>>> Herman >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "Brewtus" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Brewtus" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Brewtus" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Brewtus" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Brewtus" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Brewtus" group. 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