The strap wrench might work. You'll have to pull the steam boiler for the solenoid anyway, and by then the brew boiler is pretty simple as well.
The solenoid is an interesting question. Mine was 8 years old and chattering badly, but I never had an issue with it until I disassembled this summer and descaled (at least that's how I remember it). The solenoid piston had some buildup on it, which I cleaned completely and the seals were fine. I sort of wonder about it and it reminds me of the automotive world where they talk about "wear groups" or similar--the idea being two parts that have worn in to each other in a specific way, and so moving them around causes problems. And example being pushrods or maybe cylinder valves. My point is, I wonder if the mineral buildup on the piston wore away metal over time on the brass that is moves within, and when I removed the scale, it allowed slop that let the piston get sort of skewed and causing sticking/chattering. I know this is all sort of silly, but it's just stuff I think about. In any case, the new solenoid/piston works flawlessly and nearly silently, so problem solved. I hate to say it, but as I think back over my troubles this past year, the technician in me says "highly unlikely to have multiple failures at once", but the reality of it is that I had all of the following fail within a few months: High limit switch Heating element PID display/thermostat Giemme controller Solenoid Power switch Pressure stat I've thought about throwing in the towel a few times, but by now, I have replaced almost every electrical part on the machine and so I hope I'm good to go for another good long time, with the expected failure of pstat from time to time, and the remaining element. Not to mention the pump is now 5 years old...sigh. Apparently the solid state relay almost never fails, so I'm told by WLL. One other tip--the sealant you get from WLL is really great stuff--super easy to use and sets fast. I learned the hard way the other day, when working on a hot machine, that it sets almost instantly on hot metal. I had a fitting 90 degrees from where I needed it and the stuff was set. So had to break that loose again, clean, let cool, and redo. So if you have to work hot, use extra of it and work really fast, have all wrenches ready, etc. Ah well, keep the faith, you'll find it. b Sent from my apple IIe > On Jan 6, 2016, at 06:18, herman dickens <[email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks Ben. I'm guessing it's the controller that's causing the issue then. > It almost has to be that or the solenoid. I'm going to call Wll and see if I > can get the parts on order and shipped. I'll probably go ahead and replace > the elements while I'm at it and do the pid at the same time.I have a strap > wrench so I can probably hold the boilers in place an screw the elements out > with an air wrench. If not I can pull them and clamp them in a vice. When I'm > finished hopefully it will be as good as new. Thanks for all of the info it > has helped tremendously! > Herman > >> On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 12:31 AM, Ben McCafferty <[email protected]> wrote: >> Yes, the black box is the giemme, and the display is the gicar. >> The sensor in the steam boiler is just a metal rod, I don't think it can >> really go bad. Perhaps if it was totally scaled? But doubtful. All it >> really does is short circuit to the water which stops the pump. >> >> Best, >> bmc >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jan 5, 2016, at 19:02, herman dickens <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hopefully I'll get the chance to pull it apart and check and see what >>> controller I have. I do know there's a black box under the display on the >>> face of the machine. I'm guessing that's what you're talking about I'm >>> wondering if the sensor in the steam boiler could be bad? I was hoping Todd >>> would jump in but I'll try WLL again tomorrow I guess. Thanks for the help >>> and for the invoice. Maybe if I tear into the machine again tomorrow I will >>> see something. >>> H >>> >>>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 8:44 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> Inline below. >>>> best, >>>> bmc >>>> >>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>> >>>>> On Jan 5, 2016, at 15:30, herman dickens <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Ben the pump is 2 or 3 months old and I have it set to 10.5 bar with a >>>>> blind portafilter. It gets there pretty quick so I don't think that's the >>>>> problem. >>>> --That's pretty high; I doubt it's the problem, but I wonder if that is >>>> enough pressure to keep the solenoid from opening and letting the steam >>>> boiler fill. Still seems like it would open once you were not pulling >>>> shots. In any case, I'd set the blind pressure down to 9, shooting for >>>> about 8.5 when pulling a shot. >>>> >>>>> I'm guessing the element is like one in a water heater and you're correct >>>>> that it either works or doesn't. >>>> --Yes. It's just a copper coil. >>>> >>>>> I think you're right about a lack of water in the tank. After the cool >>>>> down the pump ran a long time before it cut off. Not sure why leaving it >>>>> plugged in caused this to happen or even if that had anything to do with >>>>> it. >>>> --I doubt it had anything to do with it. Probably the cooling and heating >>>> cycle was what "fixed" whatever was wrong. >>>> >>>>> Will the pid kit fix the controller part? >>>> --No. You have a controller from Gicar (either the old red two-digit one >>>> or the blue PID one), and a separate control box from Giemme (it's the >>>> black box mounted front left below the Gicar one). The Giemme has relays >>>> in it and controls the pump and I think the solenoid as well. >>>> >>>>> Do you still have the part number for the solenoid? Not sure why I put >>>>> relay it's the overtemp switch but I'm guessing that when the switch >>>>> kicked the time before it was the same cause. If the tank was low and the >>>>> pump didn't come on what would cause that? >>>> --Still not sure, and that's the main question here. In my case, the >>>> Giemme had one of the two relays that was clearly burning out--the clear >>>> blue housing had black inside it, etc. for that set of points. I'm trying >>>> to recall without reading all my old posts, but I'm almost certain that my >>>> failure this summer was the pump failing to run. I think I still got >>>> water in the steam boiler because I am plumbed in with 60psi of pressure >>>> in the line, and so when the solenoid opened, I think the boiler filled >>>> without the pump and I didn't know it. On a vibe pump this wouldn't >>>> happen. I also could pull shots because the lever switch overrides the >>>> Giemme and makes the pump run--basically hard wires it. The pump only >>>> runs for the steam boiler when the giemme tells it too, and the giemme >>>> also opens the solenoid at the same time. When the water reaches the >>>> probe in the steam boiler, the giemme reverses both of these things (pump >>>> and solenoid). At least that is my understanding and empirical results. >>>> >>>> I will dig up the invoice for all these parts and it will have the part >>>> numbers on it. My money is on the giemme. You can pull it out really >>>> easily and slip the case off of it; then you can see the relay points as a >>>> first easy thing to look at. >>>> >>>> Wish I had a more definitive answer for you. >>>> b >>>> >>>>> Thanks for your ideas. >>>>> h >>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 5:05 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hey Herman, >>>>>> Puzzling over your questions a bit this afternoon. >>>>>> >>>>>> Backing into it--you said the "relay" on the steam boiler--do you mean >>>>>> the small switch on the top of the boiler? If so, that's an over-temp >>>>>> switch, and I'd agree it points to the boiler being dry or mostly dry. >>>>>> Here's my thought process: >>>>>> For whatever reason, the boiler didn't refill for your first day of >>>>>> trouble, but there was still a bit of water, maybe just enough to >>>>>> produce a little steam, but it took a long time due to little or no >>>>>> immersion of the heat element. The next time, the element kept heating, >>>>>> trying to achieve steam pressure, and since no steam was being produced, >>>>>> the element overheated and popped the overlimit switch (which I think >>>>>> you just replaced, didn't you?). >>>>>> >>>>>> If all this is true, then the problem would be why the boiler isn't >>>>>> filling. Given my recent trials and tribulations, I'd guess one of a >>>>>> few things. >>>>>> >>>>>> --The solenoid is, by default, sending water to the brew group; when the >>>>>> steam boiler calls for water the solenoid opens and lets water bypass >>>>>> into the steam boiler until it hits the probe to turn off the pump and >>>>>> close the solenoid. So, the solenoid could be sticking, or the giemme >>>>>> controller could be dying. I had BOTH of these happen this year, not at >>>>>> the same time. The new solenoid is nearly silent; the old one was very >>>>>> loud, even before it started chattering near the end. >>>>>> >>>>>> --Perhaps the pump is weak/dying? Easy check on that would be to >>>>>> pressurize against a blind PF to see if you're getting good pressure >>>>>> from the pump. Also, try pulling the white wire off the top of the >>>>>> boiler that sets water level. The pump should run and solenoid should >>>>>> open, and then stop when you replace it. Just a quick check on the >>>>>> solenoid and pump functions. >>>>>> >>>>>> --Perhaps the system had air in it? I don't recall if you're plumbed or >>>>>> pour-over; if the latter, maybe check that your intake line isn't >>>>>> floating and re-prime with the turkey baster trick. Maybe it got prime >>>>>> overnight when it was working fine the next day. >>>>>> >>>>>> As to why it worked again the next day--this happened many times with my >>>>>> machine this summer and winter before final failure of the various >>>>>> parts. And was maddening as hell. A stuck solenoid that was warm would >>>>>> unstick when the machine cooled, only to stick again, etc. etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not sure, but I don't think the heating element will be a partial >>>>>> failure--I think it tends to work or not work, but others may correct me >>>>>> on that. You can easily test ohms on it with power wires disconnected >>>>>> and I think water out of the boiler. Something like 13 or 14 is good, >>>>>> if memory serves. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you do replace the elements, you can do it with the boilers in the >>>>>> machine, so long as you can get an impact wrench (but you do risk >>>>>> spinning the boiler and wrecking the copper tubes attached. Probably >>>>>> safer to pull them and use a jig in a vice to keep from bending them, >>>>>> and doesn't take all that much more time. If you have no jig, you can >>>>>> get away with only clamping on the end of the boiler where the element >>>>>> is, i.e. so you're clamping across the base which has more structure >>>>>> than the middle. Still a bit sketchy though. >>>>>> >>>>>> I replaced my solenoid last weekend (update to follow) and it took me >>>>>> about 1.5 hours to pull the steam boiler assembly, replace the solenoid, >>>>>> and replace the assembly. It's not a terrible process. >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyway, hope this helps lead you in the direction of a working repair. >>>>>> >>>>>> best, >>>>>> bmc >>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 5, 2016, at 13:40, herman dickens <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any ideas? Todd? The machine is working great today as well but I know >>>>>>> it's a matter of time until it fails again. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Monday, January 4, 2016 at 2:35:03 PM UTC-5, herman dickens wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi all. My brewtus was working fine up until this morning. I was >>>>>>>> making a latte and the steam pressure went almost to zero with the red >>>>>>>> light still on. It took a while to heat the milk with no microfoam. I >>>>>>>> was in a hurry and forgot about it until lunch and tried to make >>>>>>>> another latte. Same thing happened. If I turned the steam wand off the >>>>>>>> pressure would build back up but it was slow. After trying to use it >>>>>>>> for 5 or 10 minutes it popped the relay on the steam boiler. Any ideas >>>>>>>> other than the steam element? If I have to pull it apart to change >>>>>>>> that element I will also replace the brew element at the same time. >>>>>>>> Thanks for any advice. >>>>>>>> Herman >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "Brewtus" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Brewtus" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Brewtus" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Brewtus" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Brewtus" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Brewtus" group. 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