All right.
Let me try to clarify for myself what I meant.
I don't want Kristen to leave. But Kristen has changed from how she
was several years ago. I know she has always been worried and upset
about the problems our civilization faces. And I agree that there are
very clear grounds for concern, the evidence is everywhere. And if
there are environmental extremists out there I beleive that there are
also anti-environmental extremists.
But she has started to believe that since environmental problems are so
severe that there can be no room for disagreement. That anyone who
disagrees, like this Lomborg fellow, must be an evil person who has
decided to destroy the future in return for their own private selfish
gain.
But what is the consequence of believing that only evil people can
disagree with you? Even if you are right, even if many of the people
who disagree with you are in fact evil, you have put yourself in a
position to do very bad things, and you have decided that you are not
accountable to the evil people.
Why did I bring up mailing bombs and such? Because Ted Kaszcinski's
actions were completely logical once you accepted his premise. If
these scientists and businesspeople were destroying the world, then
violence to stop it is justified. People who are convinced that their
opponents are evil people eventually get more and more extreme, since
their opponents don't seem to change. And eventually the only way out
is through violence or complete withdrawl from society.
The belief that an opponent is irredemably evil is not helpful, even if
it turns out to be true. The evil of your opponent will justify any
action you decide to carry out, no matter how awful it is since by
definition what you do is good and what THEY do is evil. And your
beliefs cannot improve since you have immunized yourself from critique.
Listening to the evil people and taking their arguments seriously can
only be harmful.
Why am I saying this? Because I see that Kristen is starting to close
herself off from other people. She is automatically discounting what
people say. Not because she finds flaws in their arguments, but simply
because they have made the argument. She is getting more and more
unwilling to engage people.
And what is the purpose of this list? Is it to win arguments and score
points? No. It is to talk to people. It is to learn from people. It
is to teach people.
But how can that be done when some people are evil? Obviously it
can't. So the contradiction. If some people here are evil then why
communicate with them?
I don't know if this thread will do any good. I don't want Kristen to
leave, I want to have her the way she was. And I understand that
probably a lot of this is due to other issues. But Kristen doesn't
have to isolate herself or alienate people. While I understand that
Kristen might not care what I think, there are plenty of other people
here that are concerned about her. But I just see a path for her. If
she continues on the path she's going then she is going to be in danger
of hurting herself or other people.
I don't know if this will help any, but I am trying to invite Kristen
to remain here. But if she does then she has to agree that the rest of
us are members of this civilization too. If she isn't willing to
engage us and other people as equals then she has cut herself out of
civilization. And that is what I would like to see. Not that she stop
arguing, not that she change her mind, not that she stop trying to
change other people. Just that she decide that other people have
enough intellectual integrity for her to take them and their arguments
seriously.
=====
Darryl
Think Galactically -- Act Terrestrially
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