At 09:38 AM 3/30/02 -0500 Erik Reuter wrote:
>John, I think this is unfair. I just don't see this hatred. If a person
>hates, they want to see the hated one(s) hurt, embarrassed, put in their
>place, killed, etc. I have not seen Jeroen expressing such feelings
>about Israelis or Jews.
Sorry, Erik, but even excepting all of Jeroen's past statements on this
issue, there is only one possible explanation that I can fathom to explain
comparing a people with the organization that tried to exterminate them,
that systemitically organized a genocide against them. That word, Erik, is
hatred.
>Happily? Evil? I think accusing someone like that and then dropping out
>of the discussion is not a responsible way to act. I'm not sure what
>your goal is in acting like that. My goals in a discussion are usually
>to try to persuade or educate others, or if I turn out to be mistaken,
>to persuade or educate myself. Sometimes, neither one is possible, in
>which case I just shut up when that becomes apparent. A parting attack
>shot certainly isn't useful in that case.
What would you have me do Erik? Treat the comparison of large numbers of
Jews to the exterminators of the Jews seriously?
Should I *respect* his opinion?
Do you seriously think, that after his past history on this List, that
Jeroen will ever be perusaded or educated on this topic? I mean, after all
we have been through on this List to present Israeli perspective to him, he
goes off and compares the Israelis as being just like the people who
carried out systematic genocide against them???
I would compare my actions here, Erik, as following the same logic as
"excommunication" does in the Catholic Church. (Now obviously I certainly
am not excommunicating Jeroen from Brin-L, or from my life, I'm just
pointing out that the logic of "excommunication" and my decision to end
serious discussion of this topic with him are similar.) In the Catholic
Church, when someone commits an error, we do our best to persuade and
educate that person of the Truth. When, however, it becomes clear that
the person involved is incorrigible, the Catholic Church resorts to
excommunication, in the hopes that by complete disassociation from the
person will "wake up" that person to the gravity of the errors and
encourage them to repent and rejoin the Catholic Community.
Ok, so maybe I could just go quietly to talking about other subjects and
writing an analysis of _Glory Season_ and just let the matter drop - but I
do not believe that would do much good. If I was just silent about this
kind of hatred, then Jeroen would be far less likely to realize just how
much of an Anti-Semite he really is. Not that I necessarily think that
Jeroen will listen to me now, but I think that the likelyhood of him
listening is increased by me saying something as opposed to staying silent.
More importantly, though, I am a firm believer that the proper response to
evil is confrontation, not silence, and I believe that I am fairly
consistent on this regard in many areas. And Anti-Semitism is definitely
evil.
They first came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me -
and by that time no one was left to speak up.
-Attributed to Pastor Martin Niemoeller
When Jeroen cares to apologize for comparing the *very existence* of the
State of Israel to the systematic genocidal extreminators of Nazism, then
perhaps I could be persuaded to resume this discussion with him.
Then again, maybe not.
JDG
__________________________________________________________
John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - ICQ #3527685
"We fight against poverty because faith requires it and
conscience demands it." - George W. Bush 3/22/02
